[Dennis 2ss]

Hello good folks. I've had my car a while now since the build and it runs great. But IATs are very high. Going 0-150~ while get me up to 180+ degrees when ambient is around 75.
Contacted Procharger what i should do and was recommended to upgrade from my Proflow to a Racevalve on my stage 2 intercooler and i will do that but still i don't think that would make that big of a difference. I want to be below a 100.
So i'm considering water/meth only for cooling. Maybe just water?
What kit do you guys recommend and what nozzle should i use if im only going for cooling.
What intake manifold should i get? I have a stock LT1 manifold right now and that seems to be pretty bad for this if i have read the forums correct. Will a LT2 be good enough?
I just hate making 865whp on the dyno and then 765 on the street. I was at an event last week and they announced on facebook that my "1000 HP CAMARO" was coming. I had to plan all my excuses beforehand LOL

[adamjwilson]

Make sure you go dual nozzles and staineless steel/braided lines. You will need to replace the meth pump once/2 years on average, but fairly easy to do.
Lots of meth kits out there to choose from. Snow Performance seems to be popular with braided lines. I have the Tre Performance with controller and upgraded braided lines and dual nozzles (single nozzle supports up to ~700rwhp)

Lots of guys here hate Meth, so you will have many 'haters' here...lol

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by Dennis 2ss

Hello good folks. I've had my car a while now since the build and it runs great. But IATs are very high. Going 0-150~ while get me up to 180+ degrees when ambient is around 75.
Contacted Procharger what i should do and was recommended to upgrade from my Proflow to a Racevalve on my stage 2 intercooler and i will do that but still i don't think that would make that big of a difference. I want to be below a 100.
So i'm considering water/meth only for cooling. Maybe just water?
What kit do you guys recommend and what nozzle should i use if im only going for cooling.
What intake manifold should i get? I have a stock LT1 manifold right now and that seems to be pretty bad for this if i have read the forums correct. Will a LT2 be good enough?
I just hate making 865whp on the dyno and then 765 on the street. I was at an event last week and they announced on facebook that my "1000 HP CAMARO" was coming. I had to plan all my excuses beforehand LOL

I am genuinely interested in how a different blow off would help with IATs

Not disagreeing, just not sinking in for me.

Also, saw a youtube vid the other day for something like "high performance academy" or something where a procharger rep was stating their intercoolers keep iats at around 10 degrees above ambient. My eyes rolled so hard... i had thought they were talking about air-to-air, but honestly when i heard them say that i rage quit the vid and didnt bother to follow up

[Dennis 2ss]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

I am genuinely interested in how a different blow off would help with IATs

Not disagreeing, just not sinking in for me.

Also, saw a youtube vid the other day for something like "high performance academy" or something where a procharger rep was stating their intercoolers keep iats at around 10 degrees above ambient. My eyes rolled so hard... i had thought they were talking about air-to-air, but honestly when i heard them say that i rage quit the vid and didnt bother to follow up

Honestly i have no idea how either lol. I definitely agree. I think that would only be for surging now that i'm at 15 psi with a D1X.
And getting a D1X i really thought i wouldn't have seen these temps. Sucks i have to add another component to keep temps down. Specially since i race at 1/2 mile events.

[Dennis 2ss]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

Make sure you go dual nozzles and staineless steel/braided lines. You will need to replace the meth pump once/2 years on average, but fairly easy to do.
Lots of meth kits out there to choose from. Snow Performance seems to be popular with braided lines. I have the Tre Performance with controller and upgraded braided lines and dual nozzles (single nozzle supports up to ~700rwhp)

Lots of guys here hate Meth, so you will have many 'haters' here...lol

Awesome thanks, was thinking of snow performance. Very good info. Yeah i know the word "meth" can definitely trigger some interesting conversations in this forum LOL

[Ericdared]

Originally Posted by Dennis 2ss

Awesome thanks, was thinking of snow performance. Very good info. Yeah i know the word "meth" can definitely trigger some interesting conversations in this forum LOL

It would probably help at time you aren't beating on it, so when you are just putting around it will build less boost and therefor less heat.



I am interested to hear what people with experience think on this because I am planning on going the same route...procharger, e-85, and meth. I was looking at the snow performance stage 2 kit, but I have no idea of the quality and all that. I am a long way out before I am there so I just have that as a placeholder in my parts list.

[KingLT1]

Imo there is no need to use Meth for cooling if you are ONLY running E85 and not going back and fort between pump and E. E85 has the same chemical intercooling effect in the combustion chamber. Actually it's more effective being directly sprayed into the chamber vs meth being sprayed ahead of the throttle body.

All you need to do is adjust your IAT vs spark retard table to not pull timing until 175-180 on E. If you could log EGT's you would understand what I am saying better. All spraying Meth upstream of the IAT sensor is making you think temps are cooler when in fact cylinder temps will not be that much different on E vs Meth and E85. If you had no control over IAT spark retard in the tune then yes it would be beneficial to spray meth to maintain timing regardless of fuel used.

I know guys running C85 or M1 that do not run intercoolers, pushing 25 psi, hitting 200 degree IAT and they don't pull timing. And the reason is the IAT really doesn't matter. Cylinder temps and EGT's are what matter.

If you are running a good amount of E, there is no reason to pull timing until around 180 on a forged engine. I don't even pull any timing on my SBE until 154 and even then it's only -1 degree.

All that said, if you plan on bouncing back and forth between pump gas and E85, then it would be a good idea to have the meth system in place and keep the IAT spark retard table conservative if you plan on making WOT pulls on pump gas.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Imo there is no need to use Meth for cooling if you are ONLY running E85 and not going back and fort between pump and E. E85 has the same chemical intercooling effect in the combustion chamber. Actually it's more effective being directly sprayed into the chamber vs meth being sprayed ahead of the throttle body.

All you need to do is adjust your IAT vs spark retard table to not pull timing until 175-180 on E. If you could log EGT's you would understand what I am saying better. All spraying Meth upstream of the IAT sensor is making you think temps are cooler when in fact cylinder temps will not be that much different on E vs Meth and E85. If you had no control over IAT spark retard in the tune then yes it would be beneficial to spray meth to maintain timing regardless of fuel used.

I know guys running C85 or M1 that do not run intercoolers, pushing 25 psi, hitting 200 degree IAT and they don't pull timing. And the reason is the IAT really doesn't matter. Cylinder temps and EGT's are what matter.

If you are running a good amount of E, there is no reason to pull timing until around 180 on a forged engine. I don't even pull any timing on my SBE until 154 and even then it's only -1 degree.

All that said, if you plan on bouncing back and forth between pump gas and E85, then it would be a good idea to have the meth system in place and keep the IAT spark retard table conservative if you plan on making WOT pulls on pump gas.

Joe is recommending meth on mine for cooling not tuning.

[Kerry]

[Dennis 2ss]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Imo there is no need to use Meth for cooling if you are ONLY running E85 and not going back and fort between pump and E. E85 has the same chemical intercooling effect in the combustion chamber. Actually it's more effective being directly sprayed into the chamber vs meth being sprayed ahead of the throttle body.

All you need to do is adjust your IAT vs spark retard table to not pull timing until 175-180 on E. If you could log EGT's you would understand what I am saying better. All spraying Meth upstream of the IAT sensor is making you think temps are cooler when in fact cylinder temps will not be that much different on E vs Meth and E85. If you had no control over IAT spark retard in the tune then yes it would be beneficial to spray meth to maintain timing regardless of fuel used.

I know guys running C85 or M1 that do not run intercoolers, pushing 25 psi, hitting 200 degree IAT and they don't pull timing. And the reason is the IAT really doesn't matter. Cylinder temps and EGT's are what matter.

If you are running a good amount of E, there is no reason to pull timing until around 180 on a forged engine. I don't even pull any timing on my SBE until 154 and even then it's only -1 degree.

All that said, if you plan on bouncing back and forth between pump gas and E85, then it would be a good idea to have the meth system in place and keep the IAT spark retard table conservative if you plan on making WOT pulls on pump gas.

This very good info! I'm trying to run E60-65. Thats where my injectors are limited to. When i start loosing timing is at 135 F and then i'm at 22 timing, and at 180 F i'm at 17 timing. That seems very conservative then? Looking at the log i'm definately seeing that at 150+ mph the temp is moving down again.

[Kerry]

I find it hard to belive that 160 ita is the same as 80.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Dennis 2ss

This very good info! I'm trying to run E60-65. Thats where my injectors are limited to. When i start loosing timing is at 135 F and then i'm at 22 timing, and at 180 F i'm at 17 timing. That seems very conservative then? Looking at the log i'm definately seeing that at 150+ mph the temp is moving down again.

Yes your IAT spark retard table is setup for pump gas. That is costing you quite a bit.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Imo there is no need to use Meth for cooling if you are ONLY running E85 and not going back and fort between pump and E. E85 has the same chemical intercooling effect in the combustion chamber. Actually it's more effective being directly sprayed into the chamber vs meth being sprayed ahead of the throttle body.

All you need to do is adjust your IAT vs spark retard table to not pull timing until 175-180 on E. If you could log EGT's you would understand what I am saying better. All spraying Meth upstream of the IAT sensor is making you think temps are cooler when in fact cylinder temps will not be that much different on E vs Meth and E85. If you had no control over IAT spark retard in the tune then yes it would be beneficial to spray meth to maintain timing regardless of fuel used.

I know guys running C85 or M1 that do not run intercoolers, pushing 25 psi, hitting 200 degree IAT and they don't pull timing. And the reason is the IAT really doesn't matter. Cylinder temps and EGT's are what matter.

If you are running a good amount of E, there is no reason to pull timing until around 180 on a forged engine. I don't even pull any timing on my SBE until 154 and even then it's only -1 degree.

All that said, if you plan on bouncing back and forth between pump gas and E85, then it would be a good idea to have the meth system in place and keep the IAT spark retard table conservative if you plan on making WOT pulls on pump gas.

This doesn’t get talked about enough! E pretty much gives zero craps about IAT! As a matter of fact, Mike Sitar (TooHighPSI) talked me out of my chiller install since E won’t vaporize adequately at low IAT temps. Pump gas is obviously a whole different story though…

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

This doesn’t get talked about enough! E pretty much gives zero craps about IAT! As a matter of fact, Mike Sitar (TooHighPSI) talked me out of my chiller install since E won’t vaporize adequately at low IAT temps. Pump gas is obviously a whole different story though…

Oh, so now im going to have to mod to INCREASE my IATs?

Jk.... they're high enough.

I dont even want to know what it'd be on these 100+ degree days @ 50%+ humidity after a 1/4 mile pull. Its about 130 degrees peak when its 80 degrees ambient.

Im kidding about all that though.

However, im curious about the benefits of IATs on a PD vs centri. I've read that IATs are meaningless on a PD below a certain point. Ill just summarize to say that whatever IAT temp puts you below "knock thresholds" (hand wave)... because cooling down the air charge after the rotors CAN'T add any additional air MASS to the charge because of the nature of a positive displacement pump. A set VOLUME of air will pass the rotors depending on the physical characteristics of the PD. Whatever you do, that quantity of air will never change regardless of what you do to heat or cool it.

Only thing super low IATs could do in PD is decrease boost pressure by cooling, thus shrinking the air VOLUME (not to be confused with air MASS) after it has passed the rotors. In same way, decreasing the boost in this way ALSO has no effect because its always going to be the same air *mass* aka same quantity of air regardless of what you do to it after it has passed the rotors.

Now on a centri, not sure that holds up. Cooling the air charge, thus making it denser, supposedly has continued benefits on a centri the lower you go because it is not a positive displacement pump. Densifying (by cooling) the air after it passes a centri supercharger will allow higher air mass to enter the cylinder.

This is just what I've heard/read, not necessarily saying any of that is hard fact. Plus typing this out on my tablet, so hopefully that was all coherent.

To summarize, my question is... on a PD, if your IATs are already below the threshold where you need to pull timing, whats the benefit of going even lower on IATs, because once you pass the rotors, the quantity of air that enters the cylinders is the same regardless of temp.

AND does this work differently on a centri (and turbo too)?

Sorry, not trying to hijack thread, but the original question was about meth for cooling on a centri, and im unclear about whether there would still be a benefit for OP to add meth for cooling which occurs AFTER the air compression occurs for a centri.