07-19-2023, 06:28 PM | #1 |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: McCordsville, Indiana
Posts: 621
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2650 87mm to 103mm Snout (95mm TB)
Quick question, I picked up a 103mm Snout for my 2650. STD kit comes with the 87mm which is what I have now. Currently running a 95mm TB with 95mm/87mm adapter. I have a 95mm/103mm adapter that I used with my N/A setup and MSD intake.
Do you think I would need the tune touched by adding the Magnuson 103mm Snout, adding the 95/103 adapter and keeping the 95mm TB and STD rotofab? It would definitely be interesting to see the results of only that change, but i'm not willing to pay for a tune for only that. I'll add a 103/Big Gulp if I have to retune, but that will have to wait till next year as I'm capped out on car spending this year. LOL Wife rules.
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2019 Shock 2SS A10. 2650@10psi/LPE HPFP/XDI+30/LT4 LPFP+JMS/Soler 95mm/Rotofab, E65, CSP 2” Headers/GESI GenII Cats. MM Wild/GM SG3 suspension/1LE Brakes, Velgen VF5 Wheels/GY SC3. JRE Tuned.
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07-19-2023, 08:29 PM | #2 |
Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: clark, mo
Posts: 8,873
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I would open up the holes on the 95mm TB to match the 87 pattern and get rid of the adapter. Use a Dremel as I did so I could run the 95mm on a 87mm bolt pattern as the 103 snout has. You could try it but someday you may need a slight Maf change but I doubt it would be a huge change.
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2022 Lt1 6.2 A10, Maggie 2300, THPSI Port Inj/10 rib, Rotofab, E, Nickey, SCOL, Griptech, RC Bandits, Hoosiers/MT 9.80@142.96 1.44 60ft, 6.34@112 707/669 RWHP/TRQ. 16SS Maggie 2650 9.41@147 1.35 60ft, 5.99@119. 16 C7 A8 10.90@128 Bolt on stuff
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07-19-2023, 08:40 PM | #3 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 5,122
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Quote:
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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07-19-2023, 09:10 PM | #4 |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: McCordsville, Indiana
Posts: 621
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Yeah that’s what I’m thinking as well. I’ll do a few pulls and watch it…. Running E65 so should have some bandwidth if it gets a little lean.
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2019 Shock 2SS A10. 2650@10psi/LPE HPFP/XDI+30/LT4 LPFP+JMS/Soler 95mm/Rotofab, E65, CSP 2” Headers/GESI GenII Cats. MM Wild/GM SG3 suspension/1LE Brakes, Velgen VF5 Wheels/GY SC3. JRE Tuned.
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07-19-2023, 09:32 PM | #5 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 5,122
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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07-20-2023, 06:46 AM | #6 |
Drives: 2017 Camaro SS 50th Anniversary Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Missouri
Posts: 948
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Tuning the MAF is super easy once you get used to it. I highly recommed everyone at least know how to do a datalog and rescale a MAF.
Its probably the most common thing to need touching after practically any mod, so being able to do it yourself for free is better than paying hundreds of dollars for someone else to do it every time you do a mod. Goatrope Garage on Youtube has some good starter vids on this. Im sure we can help too if you post up some logs and want to learn.
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2017 50th Anniversary Edition | P1X Stage 2
DSX Aux Low Side | LT4 high side | Flex Fuel TooHighPsi Port Injection (installed & tuning) CircleD 3K Stall | QA1 CF Driveshaft Forgestar F14 Drag 17x10 NT555R2 305/45/17 Rear Forgestar F14 18x8 NT555G2 235/50/18 Front 10.84@131 w/4.13" pulley ??.??@??? w/3.7" pulley (installed & tuning) |
07-20-2023, 07:19 AM | #7 |
Petro-sexual
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I started with the 87mm snout and a LT5 TB (ported the snout and TB and re-drilled the TB). I tuned the MAF for that stuff, mostly for the BG. No biggie. I switched to a 103 snout/103 Soler and didn't really have to make too many changes to the MAF, but I did see the need to. I did not change scalers for the TBs either. Although - I've messed with VTT/VVE/DD from the start, and I think that's why I didn't have to.
I agree that it's a good idea to tip your toes into the pool on MAF rescaling. It's pretty easy and there are lots of good videos on it. Just make sure you set yourself up with what you need to do it right, and it will be just fine.
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'20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs |
07-20-2023, 07:18 PM | #8 |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: McCordsville, Indiana
Posts: 621
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Complete noob on tuning (mechanical ENG not electrical/controls lol) but do I need to rescale the MAF if I keep the STD rotofab? Let’s say I kept the STD rotofab and changed the snout and added a 103mm TB. Obviously the car is going to get more air, and would need more fuel, but I would think the MAF would still read as normal. I’m more familiar with Gen III cars and IIRC at WOT they went into PE which ignores the MAF and puts in a fixed amount of fuel. So I would think I would need to add more fuel in this scenario right? “Rescale MAF” I would think would need to be done if the diameter of the inlet tube changes (aka Big Gulp) or am I wrong?
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2019 Shock 2SS A10. 2650@10psi/LPE HPFP/XDI+30/LT4 LPFP+JMS/Soler 95mm/Rotofab, E65, CSP 2” Headers/GESI GenII Cats. MM Wild/GM SG3 suspension/1LE Brakes, Velgen VF5 Wheels/GY SC3. JRE Tuned.
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07-20-2023, 07:56 PM | #9 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,953
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Quote:
That being said the 103 should not require rescaling the MAF, but you will likely need to adjust the virtual torque tables so the engine doesn't idle with negative timing.
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
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07-20-2023, 08:32 PM | #10 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: McCordsville, Indiana
Posts: 621
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Quote:
Im thinking I’ll do a pull this weekend, throw the new snout on and do a short pull maybe 4k and post results. I’d love to learn how to do simple modifications in the tune.
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2019 Shock 2SS A10. 2650@10psi/LPE HPFP/XDI+30/LT4 LPFP+JMS/Soler 95mm/Rotofab, E65, CSP 2” Headers/GESI GenII Cats. MM Wild/GM SG3 suspension/1LE Brakes, Velgen VF5 Wheels/GY SC3. JRE Tuned.
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07-21-2023, 08:45 AM | #11 | |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,953
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Quote:
Sounds like a plan! It's always best to learn how to do this stuff yourself. Get a base tune and start comparing changes. Make small simple changes on your own, verify results...rinse repeat. That is how I have learned over the last 10 years. It's pretty easy to adjust the maf curve once you have an afr error histogram setup in your VCM scanner. This will show you how much variance is in your AFR at any given point in the maf frequency range. Then all you do is take the error percentage and add or subtract it. I usually only do half of the difference. So for example, if the AFR error is showing 3% lean from 9000 to 10000hz, I simply multiple those lean frequency cells in the maf curve by 1.015, then go make another log. Once you are +/-2% then I use .005 or .995 depending if multiplying(adding) or dividing(subtracting fuel). Once the maf curve is right the AFR should hit what you are commanding in the PE table. Now you can adjust the PE table to change fueling.
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA |
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07-21-2023, 09:02 AM | #12 | |
Drives: BLUE CAMARO ZL1 1LE M6 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 15,277
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Quote:
The Step creates a turbulence at the supercharger entry. I can't say it will, Because I never did this, but can say it might cause some Idle and tip in issues we have seen on other platforms, Like when guys were installing 90mm TB on Fast 103 manifolds. We actually offered a 90mm Ring to press in the 103mm manifold behind the TB to make the Transition smooth. All the Whipple come with a tapered reducer for the Throttle body to supercharger inlet. The change of the snout only, would not effect the calibration providing it is spot on to begin with. Ted.
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Celebrating 37 years Performance parts, Installation, Fabrication, Dyno tuning, Remote custom tuning, and alignments. 203-753-7223 Waterbury CT. 06705 email tedj@jannettyracing.com |
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