[BatMobileLT1]

Originally Posted by Kamero6

And, the issue with the manual feeling slower is the Transmission gear ratios, and differential ratio.

I think it would be a different game if you can fit 4.11 gears in a M6 for drag racing. The tall gearing is for EPA purposes.

Ah, I was wondering why first and second on the M6 are so tall (~53 & ~80) - makes sense it had to be done for EPA (maybe keeps out of gas guzzler tax?).
Just out of curiosity (as I'm just using my LT1 as DD and will keep it pretty stock/valid warranty), is there any option in terms of GM or I assume more likley aftermarket lower final drive ratio that could give improve 0-60 times w/M6?

[Keko]

saying the a10 is "objectively better" is actually pretty funny. faster, sure, but better? no chance

[Gen6cyl]

Originally Posted by BatMobileLT1

Ah, I was wondering why first and second on the M6 are so tall (~53 & ~80) - makes sense it had to be done for EPA (maybe keeps out of gas guzzler tax?).
Just out of curiosity (as I'm just using my LT1 as DD and will keep it pretty stock/valid warranty), is there any option in terms of GM or I assume more likley aftermarket lower final drive ratio that could give improve 0-60 times w/M6?

Gears from the 4,6 cylinders limited slip?

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Mike818

Objectively, as in just hard data, automatics have surpassed manuals.

All Wyzz Kydd was saying is that you singled out one measurement and based your absolute statement solely on that, which is where subjectivity crept in.

Even ignoring the subjective "driver engagement" metric, the TR-6060 is about 50 lbs lighter than the 10L90, for example, and anyone could say "therefore it is better, based on hard data". Or, say, because it comes without a torque converter and its drivetrain loss percentage is lower, the manual is better, period.

Definitely not worth arguing and derailing the thread over, but you need to accept that there is no absolute objectivity, because everyone filters the near infinite amount of "hard data" available and makes calls based on that subset for himself or herself.

BTW I have an automatic, so I'm clearly not trying to justify my purchase.

[Caerus]

I don't think one can say the A10 in the ZL1 is "objectively" better when the gas guzzler tax in $2,100 versus $1,300 for the MT6. Anyways, this is all BS semantics. Let's just say "better" is a matter of personal opinion and desire.

[Mike818]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

All Wyzz Kydd was saying is that you singled out one measurement and based your absolute statement solely on that, which is where subjectivity crept in.

Even ignoring the subjective "driver engagement" metric, the TR-6060 is about 50 lbs lighter than the 10L90, for example, and anyone could say "therefore it is better, based on hard data". Or, say, because it comes without a torque converter and its drivetrain loss percentage is lower, the manual is better, period.

Definitely not worth arguing and derailing the thread over, but you need to accept that there is no absolute objectivity, because everyone filters the near infinite amount of "hard data" available and makes calls based on that subset for himself or herself.

BTW I have an automatic, so I'm clearly not trying to justify my purchase.

It wasn't one metric I had in mind. What I had in mind are things that can be measured, quantified, tested, reproduced etc.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

All Wyzz Kydd was saying is that you singled out one measurement and based your absolute statement solely on that, which is where subjectivity crept in.

Even ignoring the subjective "driver engagement" metric, the TR-6060 is about 50 lbs lighter than the 10L90, for example, and anyone could say "therefore it is better, based on hard data". Or, say, because it comes without a torque converter and its drivetrain loss percentage is lower, the manual is better, period.

Definitely not worth arguing and derailing the thread over, but you need to accept that there is no absolute objectivity, because everyone filters the near infinite amount of "hard data" available and makes calls based on that subset for himself or herself.

BTW I have an automatic, so I'm clearly not trying to justify my purchase.

Exactly. Better in terms of speed? Better in terms of gas mileage, better in terms of expense, better in terms of weight, better in terms of efficiency? All of those are quantifiable.

Driver engagement, or 'fun factor' may not be quantifiable, but it's certainly an acceptable metric, at least in my book.

Then of course there's the fact my car with its manual transmission is less likely to be stolen...

[Mike818]

You guys are digging deep. I was thinking a little more high level stuff people normally care about like performance, reliability, efficiency, consistency.

Ok the trans itself weighs more, but if the car goes faster and gets better mpg....... Also the weight of the trans isn't the full picture. There are other components that go into each system. We would need compare the weight of the vehicle.

The ZL1 is a bit of an oddball with the taxes and what not. Generally the autos get better mpg. So I would assume less taxes and cost savings from fuel.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Kamero6

Look at it this way. All this drama is about money and wishes. If I win the powerball today I'd buy 7 or 8 new cameros. Manuals, autos all the different models. I'd pay way over msrp, get the nitro filled tires with extended warranty and all. And I'd be happy.

money is always a concern. but i was the guy with 4 sets of wheels/tires, 4 different intake manifolds, 3 fuel systems, 3 throttle bodies, an extra steering steel, shifter, shifter boot, etc etc etc. all on top of it being a full bolt on 1LE car.

i tried saying no, its too expensive. but i ended up buying the intake manifolds, drag wheels, aftermarket forged 20" wheels... and... and.

then i sold the car to chase a dream that is more expensive and literally driving me crazy. but it ain't stopping me from doing it.

the heart wants what it wants.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I'm off the forum for a month and come back to the same old worn out topics... Manual vs Auto and the LT1 vs SS vs ZL1. I really wish OPs would just research the forum before posting.

[wintertopdown]

I have had a M6 1LT v6 and currently a M6 LT1 v8. Most new camaros I see for sale at dealers are all Automatics. Driving manual is “old school” but certainly not a luxury unless you prefer to have the control as I do.

[Plasar]

YAAA = Yet Another Acronym Alert
YAMVAT = Yet Another Manual Verses Automatic Thread

Ergo:

YAAA YAMVAT!

[W-Scott]

Originally Posted by Junction65

Pop off the driver's side fuel rail cover. The plastic piece that says "CAMARO" on it.

Okay I found the performance engine build plaque right where you said it would be. So is it really correct that only 2020+ manuals will have this plaque? Looked just like yours but mine has a different name on it. This is cool.

[FarmerFran]

If Latrice is not your plaque

Then you have no plaque