[BigChubb]

Is the S650 platform a whole new chassis? Or is it the same as the 6th gen just with a newer coyote?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BigChubb

Is the S650 platform a whole new chassis? Or is it the same as the 6th gen just with a newer coyote?

I think it is a new program code on the same platform as the S550. Much like ATS and CTS are on Alpha and CT4 / CT5 are on Alpha 2, a modified version of Alpha.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by zaimer

The mustang also still has the garbage Chinese 6 speed manual, unless you get into the dark horse with the Tremec. That is absolutely ludicrous, especially for a refreshed model and even if you pay extra for the performance package. I had a new mustang ordered. I changed my mind, backed out and now I’m getting a ZL1. Outside of the new screens on the mustang (which I honestly don’t give two sh*ts) about, the Camaro is still a better overall performance car. I buy my cars for the fun factor and the performance. If nice or fancy materials were terribly important to me… I assure you that neither the mustang nor the Camaro would be in the discussion.

I don’t disagree with this completely but I will say every mt82 I have shifted worked great. I also don’t care too much about the screens but the Camaros interior (having come out in 2016) does look a little dated right now. The gen iv coyote I do believe is going to be a beast and that engine definitely has my attention. I’m grateful my order went through for 23, but if it didn’t, I’d have definitely given the new mustang a harder look. Oh and I also would get a zl1 over a dark horse even with the 5k increase. Dark horse is not a good value and I feel like I can make a better dark horse with a standard mustang gt with aftermarket parts.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I don’t disagree with this completely but I will say every mt82 I have shifted worked great. I also don’t care too much about the screens but the Camaros interior (having come out in 2016) does look a little dated right now. The gen iv coyote I do believe is going to be a beast and that engine definitely has my attention. I’m grateful my order went through for 23, but if it didn’t, I’d have definitely given the new mustang a harder look. Oh and I also would get a zl1 over a dark horse even with the 5k increase. Dark horse is not a good value and I feel like I can make a better dark horse with a standard mustang gt with aftermarket parts.

I’ve also got a new ‘22 GT Premium sitting in my garage and must say the big drivers screen is fantastic. Being able to see wideband O2 data and IAT on a gauge face is really cool. On top of banging off 7400 RPM shifts, of course.

I love both cars and glad they both exist. Iron sharpens iron!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

I’ve also got a new ‘22 GT Premium sitting in my garage and must say the big drivers screen is fantastic. Being able to see wideband O2 data and IAT on a gauge face is really cool. On top of banging off 7400 RPM shifts, of course.

I love both cars and glad they both exist. Iron sharpens iron!

What's infuriating is how easy it would've been for GM to create something similar for the Camaro, say, as part of the refresh, if only to show that they cared. The Escalade has the most amazing screen(s), so it's not like they don't know how, they very much do.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

What's infuriating is how easy it would've been for GM to create something similar for the Camaro, say, as part of the refresh, if only to show that they cared. The Escalade has the most amazing screen(s), so it's not like they don't know how, they very much do.

Agreed. I think that’s the most infuriating part…GM has the capability all day long but just doesn’t care. Too bad because they were way ahead when they launched this car in 2016. Some routine updates and occasional performance tweaks would have kept the natives happy. Ford and Dodge did that and voila…car sales.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The dark horse I spec'd costed more than the ZL1 I bought. NVTS!

Yeah, YMMV.

My loaded GT Premium that I had spec'd/ordered would've had a sticker of around $62k IIRC. You can get into a base ZL1 (or could prior to the '24 models anyway) for $8k more. That is pretty insane considering those two cars are nowhere near the same playing field.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I don’t disagree with this completely but I will say every mt82 I have shifted worked great. I also don’t care too much about the screens but the Camaros interior (having come out in 2016) does look a little dated right now. The gen iv coyote I do believe is going to be a beast and that engine definitely has my attention. I’m grateful my order went through for 23, but if it didn’t, I’d have definitely given the new mustang a harder look. Oh and I also would get a zl1 over a dark horse even with the 5k increase. Dark horse is not a good value and I feel like I can make a better dark horse with a standard mustang gt with aftermarket parts.

I'll be curious to see how the DH is with value retention. It barely has more power than the regular GT, and it isn't anything special IMO. Its not a Boss 302, GT350, GT500, etc. Its basically a GT with an appearance package..

I think the motor will be fine, it is others things that could've been improved. I'll also be curious to drive one, to see if Ford got rid of what I would call "slop" Outside of the Shelby's (the new GT500 in particular is great), the Mustang has never handled as well as a Camaro; it feels more like a standard car with a lot of power. The Camaro feels like a sports/track-oriented car with a lot of power.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by zaimer

I'll be curious to see how the DH is with value retention. It barely has more power than the regular GT, and it isn't anything special IMO. Its not a Boss 302, GT350, GT500, etc. Its basically a GT with an appearance package..

I think the motor will be fine, it is others things that could've been improved. I'll also be curious to drive one, to see if Ford got rid of what I would call "slop" Outside of the Shelby's (the new GT500 in particular is great), the Mustang has never handled as well as a Camaro; it feels more like a standard car with a lot of power. The Camaro feels like a sports/track-oriented car with a lot of power.

I wouldn't necessarily call DH simply an "appearance package". Unless you consider the likes of Mach 1, the package/level I consider DH to be filling, an appearance package. Even then Mach 1 was putting up numbers very much similar to GT350 and in some cases GT350R.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I wouldn't necessarily call DH simply an "appearance package". Unless you consider the likes of Mach 1, the package/level I consider DH to be filling, an appearance package. Even then Mach 1 was putting up numbers very much similar to GT350 and in some cases GT350R.

Yeah, in my eyes the Mach1 is a glorified GT car... because that's what it is. The DH isn't a much different situation, other than its currently the cool guy on the block.

Go try to purchase a GT350R and then try to purchase a Mach1... they are different cars.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by zaimer

I'll be curious to see how the DH is with value retention. It barely has more power than the regular GT, and it isn't anything special IMO. Its not a Boss 302, GT350, GT500, etc. Its basically a GT with an appearance package..

I think the motor will be fine, it is others things that could've been improved. I'll also be curious to drive one, to see if Ford got rid of what I would call "slop" Outside of the Shelby's (the new GT500 in particular is great), the Mustang has never handled as well as a Camaro; it feels more like a standard car with a lot of power. The Camaro feels like a sports/track-oriented car with a lot of power.

I’m also curious about the dark horse value retention. Before my 2023 order got picked up, I literally was cross shopping all the mustang trims you mentioned (12/13 boss, 11-14 gt500, gt350 track packs) because I knew if I bought one of them, it wouldn’t lose much value down the road. Those names have heritage and meaning. The dark horse is something new and while it could be something cool, it really just seems like a modded mustang GT. All the other cars had different motors than the standard GT. I also always thought it was silly when people bought mustang bullits. They are the biggest culprits when it comes to just being a glorified GT. Seems like the Mach 1 has now followed suit unfortunately.

One thing I’ll add is while I agree that the mustang is a sloppier car in GT form versus the Camaro, for me it’s actually a part of the charm. It still feels like a muscle car even though it finally has irs. The camaro, only the engine feels muscly. One thing I miss is the muscle car feeling my mustang had. I acknowledge the mustang I had was objectively inferior to my camaro, but subjectively it was better in certain ways.

I also agree with what you said about the Mach 1 in your next comment. It is a glorified GT (with the addition of a nicer gearbox which is irrelevant for people getting the 10 speed). The 03/04 Mach 1 actually had a special motor so that car has retained value much better.

[FarmerFran]

I suspect my ZL1 will retain value ok-ish

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I’m also curious about the dark horse value retention. Before my 2023 order got picked up, I literally was cross shopping all the mustang trims you mentioned (12/13 boss, 11-14 gt500, gt350 track packs) because I knew if I bought one of them, it wouldn’t lose much value down the road. Those names have heritage and meaning. The dark horse is something new and while it could be something cool, it really just seems like a modded mustang GT. All the other cars had different motors than the standard GT. I also always thought it was silly when people bought mustang bullits. They are the biggest culprits when it comes to just being a glorified GT. Seems like the Mach 1 has now followed suit unfortunately.

One thing I’ll add is while I agree that the mustang is a sloppier car in GT form versus the Camaro, for me it’s actually a part of the charm. It still feels like a muscle car even though it finally has irs. The camaro, only the engine feels muscly. One thing I miss is the muscle car feeling my mustang had. I acknowledge the mustang I had was objectively inferior to my camaro, but subjectively it was better in certain ways.

I also agree with what you said about the Mach 1 in your next comment. It is a glorified GT (with the addition of a nicer gearbox which is irrelevant for people getting the 10 speed). The 03/04 Mach 1 actually had a special motor so that car has retained value much better.

I never really got the muscle car feel from driving a Mustang, but maybe I haven't had enough seat time. The new GT500 is definitely a great car, and probably one of the most fun that I've driven yet. The exhaust/motor sound is to die for and the DCT shifts as a transmission should. Again, I never got muscle cars vibes from that either... that is 100% a sports/track car.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I suspect my ZL1 will retain value ok-ish

I'm not certain if yours would be much different, given it is a convertible, but I assure you that I don't purchase anything (for keeps) if I foresee the long term value retention as poor. This was an influencing factor, along with several others, for me to back out of my '24 Mustang order and sign up for a '23 ZL1. The ZL1 will almost undoubtedly hold value better than the mustang... and that is even without considering that the Camaro is essentially on the chopping block.