06-10-2023, 08:30 PM | #71 |
Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2016
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06-11-2023, 12:33 AM | #72 |
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Everything happens for a reason, except when it doesn't, but even then, you can, in hindsight, fabricate a reason that satisfies your belief system.
2018 2SS 1LE 2023 Colorado ZR2 2022 Stinger GT-line AWD |
06-11-2023, 07:13 AM | #73 |
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Nope. GM has decided to settle for being an ‘also ran.’ They build by committee, and hence produce bland unappealing transportation for the masses.
There are no DeLoreans or Shelbys with vision. Just accountants wearing green visored hats and counting pennies. There will be no more Al’s producing 6th gen fire breathing Camaros. Welcome to the world of cars as appliances. Ugly little generic people boxes as far as the eye can see. OTAs to restrict power, 15 minute cities where your vehicle ceases to operate if you leave your approved driving area. Adaptive speed limiters. You will drive what you’re told to drive, where and how you’re told to drive it. Funniest of all are the supposed driving enthusiasts who embrace this boring future. |
06-11-2023, 08:17 AM | #74 |
Drives: 5.0 Fox, Lancer Evos (8,X),23 ZLE? Join Date: May 2023
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What makes you all so optimistic that you think we will even be allowed to drive in the future.
Writing is on the wall, the days of human drivers and personal ownership are numbered. Automakers have already started rebranding themselves as "Mobility Providers" I truly believe the vast majority of people already would happily give up the responsibility so they could spend more time scrolling their feed etc. |
06-11-2023, 04:12 PM | #75 | |
Retired from GM
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For the record, both things were happening at the same time. Consumers first discovered larger SUVs like Explorer, Trailblazer (the rear drive version of the mid 90s), and Envoy. Those vehicles all but killed the minivan. Then the front wheel drive versions (crossovers) like Buick Enclave and Ford Edge started to take volume away from sedans. Combine that with the fact that a Ford Edge would have an easier shot at meeting Truck based CAFE targets than Fusion would have meeting Car based CAFE targets even though they have very similar shadow area and you can start to see the logic. As for the earliest EVs being sedans instead of CUVs that we see today, there are several reasons for that. In order of importance…
Ever notice that the Chevy Cruze and the Chevy Impala are gone but the Malibu stayed? And did you also notice that the current Malibu is about the same length and width as the Impala? Cruze is gone because its shadow area would have required CAFE targets in the 50 mpg range. Even though in its last few years highway mpg was about 41 mpg, it wasn’t enough. Impala had a really big shadow area which lowered the target, but it was also pretty heavy, being off an older variant of the Epsilon platform. The same variant that was used for the Cadillac DTS. Malibu is off of an updated and more mass efficient version of Epsilon. Increasing the wheelbase and track to be near Impala size lowered the CAFE target making it easier to achieve. The extra size did add some mass, but it is still significantly lighter than Impala was. So Malibu lives, Cruze (too small) and Impala (too heavy) are dead.
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06-11-2023, 04:38 PM | #76 | |
Retired from GM
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Logical arguments. But taken to their extreme, companies sized their vehicles to specific points on the curve, resulting in almost every class of vehicle growing to the largest it could be without crossing into the next vehicle class. For the chart I have posted below, look at the mpg requirement for a car with a 40 sqft area versus a vehicle with a 50 sqft area. This is why Malibu got bigger. Then look at the difference in mpg requirement for a 55 sqft area car versus a 55 sqft area truck for 2025. This is why there is still a Ford Edge but not a Ford Fusion.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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06-11-2023, 06:59 PM | #77 |
Drives: 2023 2SS, 2018 1SS 1LE, 1993 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2018
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Thanks for another overly deep analysis. Try this:
There weren’t enough buyers, so GM quit making them. |
06-11-2023, 07:00 PM | #78 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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Quote:
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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06-11-2023, 11:10 PM | #79 |
Retired from GM
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Between Cruze, Malibu, and Impala, Cruze was the better seller. But Cruze was cancelled after 2019 while Malibu continues on.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
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06-12-2023, 05:59 AM | #80 | |
Banned
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Location: Georgia
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The Camaro will soon be gone, no more Blackwing, the Vette lacks a manual transmission and is likely headed to full electrification. What’s left that’s awesome? Equinox? Pfff. Driven one as a loaner. Garbage build quality and butt ugly. Trucks? GM has always played second fiddle to Ford. Zero chance I would buy GM over an F150. EVs? If I were going that route I would buy from a company that knows how to build them: Tesla. |
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06-12-2023, 10:39 AM | #81 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
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Equinox? One of GM's best selling vehicles. Most people I know that own one love them. But different strokes as you say. And the EV Equinox looks very promising especially if they are able to keep the price below $30k. GM has never really been 2nd to Ford. Most years if you added Chevy AND GMC, GM was often number 1 for very close to Ford. And if you include the Suburban/Tahoe Ford has never been able to compete. Same architecture and powertrains and GM has always owned that segment. And other than some tech (downloading video games lol) Tesla makes a pretty crappy car. I laugh that they are considered a luxury car simply because of the price, not the car. When they try to push the envelope (yoke steering wheel) they almost immediately made it optional and had Toyota (Lexus) give them a lesson in automotive engineering. But understand why you would think they make a decent EV, it's just not a decent car unless you are buying for only for the technology they offer, which is substantial. But UltiFi will put GM on par with that as well. Always interesting to be on a pro Chevy Camaro site with so much negativity about GM and it's other brands and models.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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06-12-2023, 12:10 PM | #82 | |
Banned
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06-12-2023, 01:19 PM | #83 |
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
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Remember when we were told how much less expensive EVs would be to build? Fewer components than ICE cars, ease of assembly, common platforms, no mileage tests or certifications that ICE required, etc. What a cost savings bonanza!! Even the affordable Bolt is history. But wait! The Equinox will do the job! (Probably won't last long as profits are King)..lol And now this...Promises, promises...The EV Transition now comes to grips with reality and the platitudes and hype won't save it. Bring back the common sense of ICE cars and end this EV madness...
Probably all in the plan from the 2017 Decision to go all EV by gm...lol...Oh well. Not surprised really. The EV scam continues.... https://insideevs.com/news/670573/gm...arket-ev-soon/ From the article: "GM CEO Mary Barra rarely talks about Tesla, and she almost never praises the company or gives it credit for any of the success EVs are having today. Nonetheless, she recently admitted that the US EV maker does currently hold the lead in the fully electric space when it comes to technology, profitability, and scale. According to Electrek, Barra made the mention during a Sanford Bernstein conference. She spoke about the situation as it stands today and made it clear that she's aware Tesla is leading. She also hinted at General Motors overtaking that lead, but didn't come right out and say it. If you've been following CEO Barra and GM's EV plans over the years, you may know that the automaker promised a whole host of electric cars coming to market by now, with many affordable enough for mass-market adoption. However, sadly, only a handful of copies of very pricey EVs have hit the market: the GMC Hummer EV and Cadillac Lyriq. Moreover, the company has decided to discontinue its most affordable options: the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Bolt EUV. Soon, however, GM will woo audiences and attract buyers with its affordable Chevrolet Equinox EV, with many more similar options coming thereafter. After admitting that Tesla is currently leading, Barra when on to say that she just doesn't see profitable EVs coming to market with $30,000 to $40,000 price tags until the end of the decade, or perhaps even later. It seems she's indirectly pointing out that even though Tesla has the lead now, it doesn't (and can't soon) offer affordable mass-market EVs, so its lead could be temporary. Barra went on to talk about profits, noting that the cost of making an EV is still so high that you can't sell them at low prices and still make money. Yet, GM says it's bringing the Equinox EV to market soon with a $30,000 price tag. Meanwhile, Tesla has dropped its prices many times this year, it does offer "affordable" EVs, and it's still making lots of money. There's not a whole lot about any of this that makes much sense. Should we expect to wait until the end of the decade or longer for Chevrolet to bring the Equinox EV base model to market? By then, is $45,000 the new $30,000? When will GM make a profit with EVs and bring an onslaught to market to be the true leader?" You have to believe that "affordable" is whatever higher price they keep coming up with. The Bolt was 26K. The Equinox is said to be less expensive for them to build than the Bolt, but it costs 4K more just to start. Whatever their lowest priced unit is, it will be the least profitable and won't survive. Even Barra basically admits the Equinox is already a loser. The car-buying public was sold a bill of goods about a mass-marketed, affordable EV. They will likely never exist, unless you believe their definition of affordable. gm is kidding itself about its own reputation, success and popularity. If the public likes it and it's not expensive, you know, gm will just get rid of it. Last edited by 90503; 06-12-2023 at 02:14 PM. |
06-12-2023, 01:58 PM | #84 | |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Hyper Blue Metallic Join Date: May 2020
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