[JP374]

Hey guys,

So in the process of learning and tinkering with my tune I am curious about timing. My car made 890,s whp on e60 blend with only 21.5* of timing, I have been reading about different FI builds where guys are starting at 26-28* of timing and has me curious if I may have left some power on the table.

Build: P1X, forged, btr stage 2 blower cam, lpe big bore, +30's, Fore innovations fuel system.

Last time I had car on the dyno I was trying to get MS in check so went from e85 to e60, and targeting .84 lamda, got it to maintain at 5.1MS fuel system was happy, injector duty cycle 28%. originally timing was at 18* and made 840, went to 21.5* and made 890's with e60. I was happy with the numbers and packed it up. Everything with fuel system looked great, MS etc. Now that I've been reading and learning I am wondering if I left anything on the table. I have never had any KR on dyno or street logs.

It has plenty of power and am very happy with it, however the gearhead in me is really starting to wonder if I could of gained anything or broke 900 whp lol.

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks JP

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by JP374

Hey guys,

So in the process of learning and tinkering with my tune I am curious about timing. My car made 890,s whp on e60 blend with only 21.5* of timing, I have been reading about different FI builds where guys are starting at 26-28* of timing and has me curious if I may have left some power on the table.

Build: P1X, forged, btr stage 2 blower cam, lpe big bore, +30's, Fore innovations fuel system.

Last time I had car on the dyno I was trying to get MS in check so went from e85 to e60, and targeting .84 lamda, got it to maintain at 5.1MS fuel system was happy, injector duty cycle 28%. originally timing was at 18* and made 840, went to 21.5* and made 890's with e60. I was happy with the numbers and packed it up. Everything with fuel system looked great, MS etc. Now that I've been reading and learning I am wondering if I left anything on the table. I have never had any KR on dyno or street logs.

It has plenty of power and am very happy with it, however the gearhead in me is really starting to wonder if I could of gained anything or broke 900 whp lol.

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks JP

FYI duty cycle means nothing with DI.

21.5 degrees is on the conservative side for E60 but not obnoxiously so. You probably had another 10-15 WHP sitting there but you grabbed a good amount of the low hanging fruit already. Definitely worth going up a degree or two, and seeing if you gain power. If you don’t, then just go back to where you were.

[JP374]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

FYI duty cycle means nothing with DI.

21.5 degrees is on the conservative side for E60 but not obnoxiously so. You probably had another 10-15 WHP sitting there but you grabbed a good amount of the low hanging fruit already. Definitely worth going up a degree or two, and seeing if you gain power. If you don’t, then just go back to where you were.

Thx Joshinator. I was told once the injector duty reached 30% I was out of injector. That’s good to know. So as long as my MS is under 6.2 and I’m not losing fuel psi etc I should be good to go.

Probably best to add timing on the dyno vs street pulls im guessing?

Thx JP

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by JP374

Hey guys,

So in the process of learning and tinkering with my tune I am curious about timing. My car made 890,s whp on e60 blend with only 21.5* of timing, I have been reading about different FI builds where guys are starting at 26-28* of timing and has me curious if I may have left some power on the table.

Build: P1X, forged, btr stage 2 blower cam, lpe big bore, +30's, Fore innovations fuel system.

Last time I had car on the dyno I was trying to get MS in check so went from e85 to e60, and targeting .84 lamda, got it to maintain at 5.1MS fuel system was happy, injector duty cycle 28%. originally timing was at 18* and made 840, went to 21.5* and made 890's with e60. I was happy with the numbers and packed it up. Everything with fuel system looked great, MS etc. Now that I've been reading and learning I am wondering if I left anything on the table. I have never had any KR on dyno or street logs.

It has plenty of power and am very happy with it, however the gearhead in me is really starting to wonder if I could of gained anything or broke 900 whp lol.

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks JP

Should add your mods to your sig. With a forged BE, prob safe to try bumping timing on a dyno. Ive tried street tuning and even with a dragy and logging, it was difficult to figure out if small changes to timing and such were doing anything.

Ill get mine on a dyno eventually i suppose.

[JP374]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Should add your mods to your sig. With a forged BE, prob safe to try bumping timing on a dyno. Ive tried street tuning and even with a dragy and logging, it was difficult to figure out if small changes to timing and such were doing anything.

Ill get mine on a dyno eventually i suppose.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try to figure that out lol.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by JP374

Thx Joshinator. I was told once the injector duty reached 30% I was out of injector. That’s good to know. So as long as my MS is under 6.2 and I’m not losing fuel psi etc I should be good to go.

Probably best to add timing on the dyno vs street pulls im guessing?

Thx JP

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Should add your mods to your sig. With a forged BE, prob safe to try bumping timing on a dyno. Ive tried street tuning and even with a dragy and logging, it was difficult to figure out if small changes to timing and such were doing anything.

Ill get mine on a dyno eventually i suppose.

It’s best if you can do it on the same dyno, same day, if possible. Try to minimize other variables if you can.

And IPW is the number to watch, not duty cycle in my opinion. If low side pressure is solid, then rail pressure is solid, and IPW is good then you know you’re good to go. All pressures should hold commanded.

[JP374]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

It’s best if you can do it on the same dyno, same day, if possible. Try to minimize other variables if you can.

Ok, that’s kinda what I figured. Thx

[JP374]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

It’s best if you can do it on the same dyno, same day, if possible. Try to minimize other variables if you can.

And IPW is the number to watch, not duty cycle in my opinion. If low side pressure is solid, then rail pressure is solid, and IPW is good then you know you’re good to go. All pressures should hold commanded.

Ok I kinda figured on the dyno thing.

I will have to go back through the logs and see what IPW was. I know my commanded fuel psi were good after I dropped it to e60. When I was e85 my high side dropped 100-150 psi.

Thx for the info

[KingLT1]

Depends on compression. Low compression stuff similar to LT4 I'll run 24-25 degrees on E60 up to 18-19psi. I'm not going to push higher then that to make a number.

[JP374]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Depends on compression. Low compression stuff similar to LT4 I'll run 24-25 degrees on E60 up to 18-19psi. I'm not going to push higher then that to make a number.

Ok, I’m at 10.8:1. Only at 13psi, 6800 rpm

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JP374

Ok, I’m at 10.8:1. Only at 13psi, 6800 rpm

24 degrees should be doable. Aside from the Dyno, reading the spark plugs will tell you what the combo likes. Look to see where the timing mark is on the ground strap. It should be just above the bend.

I agree with Josh to monitor IPW. Below 5.8 is ideal, 6.0 is max and power will start to fall off. Also I like to monitor start and end of injection timing.

[JP374]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

24 degrees should be doable. Aside from the Dyno, reading the spark plugs will tell you what the combo likes. Look to see where the timing mark is on the ground strap. It should be just above the bend.

I agree with Josh to monitor IPW. Below 5.8 is ideal, 6.0 is max and power will start to fall off. Also I like to monitor start and end of injection timing.

Thx King.

I plan on changing the plug’s possibly this weekend, I will look at them. I’m logging the IPW and it peaks at 5.2MS, I noticed my timing was only at 20* but have max set at 21.5*. This was on e60.