08-11-2022, 09:29 PM | #99 |
Drives: 2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Johnstown, PA
Posts: 3,250
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I had two instances of ice mode in my Gen5 SS 1LE on track.
Once was a very quick transition from wide open throttle to heavy braking on 305/30-19 RE71Rs with Raybestos ST43 pads. This is a known way to induce ice mode. Especially at an autocross event. I adjusted my aggression and allowed a split second between the throttle to brake transition. ST43s have alot of initial bite, even on the street and cold. The second occurrence was with the same pads and brand new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (PSC2) in the same above size. Prior to trying the PSC2 I ran the Goodyear 3R. I found the 3R allowed an aggressive brake application but taking that same technique to the PSC2 would induce ice mode. At that time I was also pushing my braking events deeper and deeper. It is very possible that in trying to shorten my zones I was attacking the pedal more. Because maybe going deeper makes one hasten the initial application. The PSC2 is a different tire vs the 3R. The 3R can rock and roll longer and not fall off a ton with elevated temps/pressures where the PSC2 is known as a one lap wonder. The PSC2 may not be as welcoming of aggressive braking. The use of an aggressive pad like the ST43 can certainly create the potential for ice mode, obviously. Add a tire that may not be as accepting to aggressive braking and you'll have to change up your technique. In both instances, a quick release of the brake and a softer reapply allowed the ABS to "reset" and allow full braking. I didn't panic or stay into the brake pedal. I think having gotten into ABS on track at prior occasions taught me to quickly release/softly reapply when something doesn't feel right or go as expected. The occurrence on the PSC2s was at one of the fastest parts of Pitt Race, entering Turn 17. I was able to reapply but in one of those moments when the human brain can compute lots of data and make a quick decision, I concluded that was not going to be able to make the turn at the higher speed so I just gradually went into the grass with minimal steering input and all was well. The corner worker didn't even see me do it. Since pit entry was right at the exit of that 17/18 combined corner, I self reported to the pit steward who knew nothing of what I just did. Someone mentioned that the ZLE may not have ice mode in it's programming. The occurrence of ice mode on the ZLE, I think happens less because it has a supper grippy tire (3R) that can absorb aggressive braking. I look at ice mode is a default, not something that is "programmed" into the ABS. I'm not discounting that maybe tighter programming reduces the potential for it. Seems GM changed something within the Gen6 over the years. But maybe it is a result of the resolution of the system, data per millisecond. Things happen too quick for the system to compute a proper resolution? Or it is just a result of the following scenario. It acts the same as if it was on ice. I experienced ice mode in my old '93 Grand Prix, on ice. Same feeling as what I experienced in my '14 1LE. The computer basically just throws its hands in the air and says "I can't control the car if all 4 tires are slipping!". There's no baseline to refer to. Other makes have it too, once all four tires show zero wheel speed, even for a split second, the system says, well "X" pressure is causing lockup, then less than "X" (even of all 4) should reduce it. So the driver doesn't reduce the pedal effort, but the computer does, hence the firm pedal but reduced slowing of the car. That's my own theory at least. I see ice mode happening from: Too much pad, too much initial braking aggression, too little tire, or too much ice
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2022 1SS 1LE A10 BCD WCT+PDR2014 1SS 1LE NPP RECARO SIM-SOLD1995 Z28 M6 GSC PGM-SOLD1975 NOVA COUPE 300HP 350 TH350 FLASH RED-SOLD
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08-13-2022, 10:44 AM | #100 |
Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,389
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So if ice mode does continue to happen, the consensus is release the brake and then reapply and this works every time?
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2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades
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08-13-2022, 07:09 PM | #101 |
Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 968
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I have tried that but it is mentally hard to fully release the brake pedal when you are trying to do it very quickly because you are about to go off track and the time it takes to do so will still result in you entering the corner significantly faster than you want to if you do manage to fully release and reapply the brake pedal.
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08-14-2022, 11:57 AM | #102 | |
Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,389
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Quote:
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2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades
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08-14-2022, 10:27 PM | #103 | |
Drives: 2017 HBM Camaro SS 1LE Camaro Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 108
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Quote:
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02-06-2023, 02:30 PM | #104 |
Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 92
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Does running identical tires front and back help with this situation? On my 2017 SS 1le the stock rear tire is about 2% taller than the front. I will be running 315/30/18 square on all four corners for autox this year. For those of you running square set ups, did this help prevent ice mode from being triggered?
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02-06-2023, 02:50 PM | #105 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 1,900
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Quote:
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02-06-2023, 04:33 PM | #106 |
Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 92
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Ok, thanks. From my research it seems like a bunch of witchcraft. Haha
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02-19-2023, 09:28 PM | #107 | |
Drives: 18 ZLE, 18 SS1LE, 16 SS, 23 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 421
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Quote:
The new ECU and chassis module were dealer programmed no problem. The steering module and ABS would not program. Took to the body shop’s programmer, same result. Further research led me to find that the problem was that there is already a VIN in the used module and therefore it cannot be programmed to another vehicle with a different VIN. There are companies that say that they can unlock the module, but they want a ransom for it so why bother. I ordered a new rack and ABS module, will get them installed programmed this week. I don’t see why you couldn’t order any module you wanted, but getting it programmed for something not in your VIN’s DNA if you will would seem to be the challenge. FWIW not all modules require programming such as fuel pump power control modules and can be swapped, but ABS modules, steering modules and a list of others require programming and are not easily swapped. Interestingly, the ABS module and valve is half the price of the module alone. As far as the original topic I would be interested in the programming update if it’s possible. Last edited by Sephx1; 02-19-2023 at 10:32 PM. |
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02-19-2023, 10:33 PM | #108 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 1,900
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AFAIK, from a licensed GM tech who works at a dealer, the ECU will be ok with up to two modules with different VINs, but they have to be from the exact same car as far as options, etc. This includes ANYTHING with an electrical connection, so the color probably doesn't matter, but something like NPT exhaust and PDR will definitely matter.
On the ABS / EBCM, when you buy it brand new, which is very expensive, it needs to be programmed by placing it in the car and then doing whatever they do to complete the programming. Once this is done, it's done, so you can't just move it to a new car and reprogram it, it will have that car's VIN forever... or unless it's unlocked. Charging $300 to unlock a module is not that bad if you need it done, that's far cheaper than a new one, and I assume unlocking it would make it like new, so once unlocked, it needs to be reprogrammed as described previously. As far as the ZLEs, I don't think the pre '19s had any issues with ice mode so I'd guess the ABS software did NOT change on the ZLE from '18 to '19 like it did for other models.
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02-20-2023, 06:07 PM | #109 |
Rayvan
Drives: 2018 1SS1LE, Silver Ice Metallic Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 275
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You may just need a coach. Smoother *is* faster. Learn to be smooth, and your laptimes will likely *improve.* It's all about weight transfer.
https://speedsecrets.com/why-smooth-...th%20is%20fast. |
02-20-2023, 06:16 PM | #110 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 1,900
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Quote:
There is a good reason why GM hired an engineer to improve the ABS programming on our cars, but you really need to get to 10/10ths before it matters.
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02-25-2023, 10:30 AM | #111 | |
Drives: Track prepped 2018 Camaro ZL1 (a10) Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,389
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Quote:
And yes, a new EBCM ABS module is ridiculously expensive, something like around $2000 versus a used one for $150, thankfully, some forum members steered me in the right direction, and educating me on that and I was able to return the brand new one that I ordered
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2018 ZL1; Mag 2650 and 2 inch LT Headers , every SPL suspension upgrade, MCS 2 way coilovers, sway bars, square SC3R 325's all the way around, and multiple brake cooling upgrades
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02-25-2023, 10:45 AM | #112 | |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 1,900
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Quote:
In my car I had controls for a rear view mirror camera appear, this wasn't even an option in '18. I may have lost teen driving mode or something too, the behavior of the software is pretty odd. ABS is definitely better behaved, there was a couple times others had ice mode incidents at an autox, in those spots I could feel the ABS considering what to do for a tiny fraction of a second before braking normally, so I'm happy. $2k for a new one makes the $300 that guy is charging to unlock your module seem pretty reasonable.
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