[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I was fooled as you continued focusing your posts on pads street performance, finally offering slicks as a reason.

Still not sure what you mean or what you are saying.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

As far as ignoring advice, you don't have sufficient knowledge to cherry pick what advice to adopt vs ignore.
That's one of the issues here...Get a good instructor: that's absolutely vital!

I was referring to your advice specifically not advice from an instructor if I had one
I still get lots of advice from the track instructors and I love hearing it, that's why I engage in conversations and/or debates as opposed to just ignore them.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

To this end, let me make something perfectly clear: i have NO idea how you drive and what mistakes you make, or how many and how serious. Hence i have NO idea if you should go to PTM Sport 2 or Race. My statement was to suggest that turning Stabilitrack off was a better next step to learn the skill (with in car instruction) vs going to slicks. But: I HAVE NO IDEA IF YOU ARE READY FOR IT SAFETY WISE. My only suggestion here would be:
If you wish to try these modes, do so first on a skid pad, figure eight course, or autox course. And learn to feel and catch the car there. If you can't *consistently* control the car going over the limit at those venues, you may possibly crash on a race track as speeds will be much higher and necessary reaction times much shorter. Lastly: dial your speed DOWN and get tons of extra in car instruction, as you will need to learn a whole new skill of balancing the car by FEEL (which Stabilitrack has been doing for you thus far, albeit i have NO idea to what extent).
Bottom line, do realize the decision what mode to run in is yours alone. Hopefully aided by a qualified instructor that can asses your driving and properly advise you here.
And that is NOT me.

haha don't worry, in case you can't tell, I don't just take what you say blindly and put it into action, I think it through before I take action, I'm simply agreeing that getting to know my car better by taking some controls off is a good idea at the right time in the right situations.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Glad we agree that learning to drive in a fast car is more difficult. And a ZL1 is one damn fast car with incredible torque levels. Putting slicks on it, will make it *capable* of going MUCH FASTER in corners while giving you NARROWER slip angles to manage. Read: more difficult to control at a limit. Meaning, the risk of losing the car will be GREATER. This will absolutely make your learning not only more difficult, but also higher risk. I hope you understand this. If not, seek advice from your resident chief instructor as i dont know how to explain it any better.

It is nice to agree on something, actually I'd say we agree on a lot, remember, I'm not saying that your advice isn't the best route to go or safest, I'm just saying I don't know that it's as big of a deal as you are saying or if I care about going the absolutely best and safest route. Remember, different people, different goals!

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Note: HPDE orgs that take driver development and safety seriously, do not allow slicks (DOT or otherwise), until one graduates to an advanced group. Also, they dont allow folks to drive solo unless they are signed off by a qualified instructor and that decision is seconded by a chief instructor. Of course some orgs and even some tracks, permit "open lapping" to anyone and anything goes at those. Not my idea of safe fun to say the least, unless one has proper experience to gauge risk levels involved.

My track is something like this, I can't do open lapping days on my own without passing 3 driver training courses/levels. I have one more to go, however they don't care about slicks vs street tires.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Based on your experience thus far, you are somewhere between a capable novice to a beginner intermediate level. At this stage you should absolutely not let your ego play any role whatsoever. Forget laptimes! Your focus should be on learning how to feel the car and making your driving as smooth and balanced as possible in all 3 phases of all corners, while being assisted by a qualified in car instructor so they can give you immediate feedback of what you are doing well vs not. Before you run, you need to learn how to walk. Lest you may end up with a sudden and painful face plant, with nobody to catch you. This aside, note that even F1 drivers still have coaches, even though they have reached an absolute pinnacle of motorsports. Give it a long, serious thought. The biggest mistake would be to decide that you know enough to teach yourself.

Have fun and play safe. Cheers!

Thanks trying not to let the ego win, if I keep seeing improvement in lap times and consistency like I am then that will make it easier.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Gonna pause it right there. In the early stages of your development they absolutely are a crutch - being able to push them harder than street tires can let you acquire bad habits along the way to actually being able to use all of that grip. It's going to feel like the extra grip is always going to be there to catch you (until it isn't). In the beginning, they'll always have more grip than what you're accustomed to having, and there is a tendency to rely on that extra grip always having your back.

Norm

Fair enough, I appreciate the info and explanation, I really do but just like with TrackClub, I understand that while it CAN become a crutch, I'm saying it doesn't have to.

I totally understand why you are saying what you are saying, I get it, it's the best route to go for driver development and safest route to go, but you are assuming I care as much as you do about going that route and that I have the same goals as you.

Once again, I'm not sold on going for slicks next season, I'll be contemplating it over the winter. I may just go for the SC3R instead to satiate my appetite.

[GunMetalGrey]

Back to brake pads since this was supposed to be a brake pad thread...

I'm looking into Hawk Street/Race pads, not sure how they compare to our stock pads or if anyone has any experience with them.

https://www.buybrakes.com/hawk-perfo...ace-brake-pads

Likewise does anyone here have experience using Hawk Blue or DTC30 pads?

[Stormtrooper1le]

I'm a lackluster driver and just passed my first full year in this expensive amazing hobby . I ran sport 1 for 2 track days, sports 2 for 1 day, and race from here on out.

My thinking was why would I would to hone and develop my skills, while still having stabilitrack engaged, which would further mask my mistakes and potentially even encourage furthering bad habits. IMO there is not much of a difference. Try it out on a track your most comfortable and just take it back a notch to start.

The biggest jump I believe is from PTM to full off which I am wanting to do but still not sure if I'm ready. When I do I will scale it back a little and then work back up to pace!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Still not sure what you mean or what you are saying.



I was referring to your advice specifically not advice from an instructor if I had one
I still get lots of advice from the track instructors and I love hearing it, that's why I engage in conversations and/or debates as opposed to just ignore them.



haha don't worry, in case you can't tell, I don't just take what you say blindly and put it into action, I think it through before I take action, I'm simply agreeing that getting to know my car better by taking some controls off is a good idea at the right time in the right situations.



It is nice to agree on something, actually I'd say we agree on a lot, remember, I'm not saying that your advice isn't the best route to go or safest, I'm just saying I don't know that it's as big of a deal as you are saying or if I care about going the absolutely best and safest route. Remember, different people, different goals!



My track is something like this, I can't do open lapping days on my own without passing 3 driver training courses/levels. I have one more to go, however they don't care about slicks vs street tires.



Thanks trying not to let the ego win, if I keep seeing improvement in lap times and consistency like I am then that will make it easier.

No problemo at all! I am not going to debate merits of how best to learn to be fast, as we would be debating what top shelf pro coaches preach any chance they get.

Consequently, this concludes this entertaining discussion - for me at least. Thanks and cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Homeless Junkie

Will do! I’m headed to Somona on Tuesday.

I understood you clearly. Thank you for all the advice BTW. I was joking about not knowing what brake fluid I was using because I didn’t recommend it or put it in my car.

I’ve spent so much time ice climbing rock climbing skiing and mountain biking from Canmore to North Vancouver. I love Canada!! We used to spend February traveling from Calgary to Vancouver skiing and climbing along the way. July we spent in Whistler and Squamish.

Thanks again!

Fantastic! Well, we got something in common then: 25 seasons of rock and ice here, spanning from Squamish to the Alps

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Stormtrooper1le

I'm a lackluster driver and just passed my first full year in this expensive amazing hobby . I ran sport 1 for 2 track days, sports 2 for 1 day, and race from here on out.

My thinking was why would I would to hone and develop my skills, while still having stabilitrack engaged, which would further mask my mistakes and potentially even encourage furthering bad habits. IMO there is not much of a difference. Try it out on a track your most comfortable and just take it back a notch to start.

The biggest jump I believe is from PTM to full off which I am wanting to do but still not sure if I'm ready. When I do I will scale it back a little and then work back up to pace!

Excellent thoughts!

I would suggest if you havent noticed much difference, you are not pushing the car hard enough yet (which is perfectly fine, this is just fyi). For me, Sport1 absolutely restricts car's willingness to rotate, pretty much in all corner phases. And not in a subtle way either. The car is much, much tighter in both feel and responses. And that's what stability control system is designed to do: not permit the car to exceed yaw angles beyond which the computer can't recover the car from, without intervention from a driver. Cheers!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Fair enough, I appreciate the info and explanation, I really do but just like with TrackClub, I understand that while it CAN become a crutch, I'm saying it doesn't have to.

I totally understand why you are saying what you are saying, I get it, it's the best route to go for driver development and safest route to go, but you are assuming I care as much as you do about going that route and that I have the same goals as you.

We all want to see our lap times drop, and you'd think if anything it would be me at age almost-72 who'd be the guy in a hurry to make that happen/continue to happen.


Don't forget that there are other people out there with you, even though there are periods when you might not even be seeing another car. You want them to be comfortable running with you . . . at their experience level.

Promise me you won't be like the Corvette driver in this little clip. It's not the spin you'll see that matters as much as the four-off-clear-into the woods he did barely half a lap later (that black-flagged the session).

Embedding isn't working entirely right for me, hence the link https://youtu.be/sZ50jWbmzlk .


But as a .jpg preview,





Norm

[Homeless Junkie]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Fantastic! Well, we got something in common then: 25 seasons of rock and ice here, spanning from Squamish to the Alps

Sorry to hijack this OP! Apologies but..

Well then story time! The first day I climbed anything was at Grotto Canyon. My wife and I stopped in Banff for a few days to ski Sunshine Village and Lake Louise. Unfortunately everyone we stopped on the street said conditions were horrible. I remember someone saying that we might enjoy the snow because we were from Maryland. Dude said “you guys are used to skiing ice right?”During a stroll down Main Street we came across a billboard that read “if you can climb a ladder you can climb ice hire Yamasaka guides”. I looked at my wife and said we can climb a ladder!

It was tough to find a guide for the next day but we did. Josh Lavigne was supposed have a day off but chose to take us out. Although we fell asleep watching TV at 7pm that night we went out again the next day to Johnston Canyon. The third day we went and did Guinness Gully. That was amazing! I was blown away and hooked on climbing.

Josh asked if we come to Banff in the summer. I told him no but that we go to Whistler every July. He offered to meet us there and teach us rock climbing if we could hire him for five days, only charged us for four, and recommended we join a gym. So the first place I rock climbed was the Smoke Bluffs and the first multipitch rock was up the Apron on the Chief and to the summit. I hired Josh a bunch more days. He was a great teacher. Super patience too! I was such a whiner haha..

That was 13 years ago. I doubt the track will see a big explosion of noobs like climbing has due to the cost of the sport. Although if you figure in traveling into the cost of climbing as a hobby maybe it’s close 🤔

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Homeless Junkie

Sorry to hijack this OP! Apologies but..

Well then story time! The first day I climbed anything was at Grotto Canyon. My wife and I stopped in Banff for a few days to ski Sunshine Village and Lake Louise. Unfortunately everyone we stopped on the street said conditions were horrible. I remember someone saying that we might enjoy the snow because we were from Maryland. Dude said “you guys are used to skiing ice right?”During a stroll down Main Street we came across a billboard that read “if you can climb a ladder you can climb ice hire Yamasaka guides”. I looked at my wife and said we can climb a ladder!

It was tough to find a guide for the next day but we did. Josh Lavigne was supposed have a day off but chose to take us out. Although we fell asleep watching TV at 7pm that night we went out again the next day to Johnston Canyon. The third day we went and did Guinness Gully. That was amazing! I was blown away and hooked on climbing.

Josh asked if we come to Banff in the summer. I told him no but that we go to Whistler every July. He offered to meet us there and teach us rock climbing if we could hire him for five days, only charged us for four, and recommended we join a gym. So the first place I rock climbed was the Smoke Bluffs and the first multipitch rock was up the Apron on the Chief and to the summit. I hired Josh a bunch more days. He was a great teacher. Super patience too! I was such a whiner haha..

That was 13 years ago. I doubt the track will see a big explosion of noobs like climbing has due to the cost of the sport. Although if you figure in traveling into the cost of climbing as a hobby maybe it’s close 🤔

Good story! Reminds me of our first days out. Yam...epic! Full of real hardman...and women! World class! Been friends with quite a few of them, albeit past gen now. And sadly some are no longer with us. In climbing, statistics have a way of catching up with folks eventually. Or so it seems. Anyway, we better stay on topic lest the mods will kick us out lol! Motorsports: much more expensive on a per day basis, regardless of travel costs involved for both hobbies. Imo. Cheers!

[Harpinc]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

We all want to see our lap times drop, and you'd think if anything it would be me at age almost-72 who'd be the guy in a hurry to make that happen/continue to happen.


Don't forget that there are other people out there with you, even though there are periods when you might not even be seeing another car. You want them to be comfortable running with you . . . at their experience level.

Promise me you won't be like the Corvette driver in this little clip. It's not the spin you'll see that matters as much as the four-off-clear-into the woods he did barely half a lap later (that black-flagged the session).

Embedding isn't working entirely right for me, hence the link https://youtu.be/sZ50jWbmzlk .


But as a .jpg preview,





Norm

You guys should really learn the rain line. It will be a lot faster and safer..

[Norm Peterson]

The point I was trying to make was mainly to GMG about not letting ego get in the way. You'd think a spin would cause people to dial it back a couple of notches to regroup, but obviously that's not always the case.

FWIW, we were basically trying to dodge the puddles and stretches of deeper water, and as I recall, following where the water had been 'swept' by the car ahead of you was working a little better in many places (which is a good tip for street driving in the rain). Mr. Corvette had run his left side tires down the stream of deeper water (that's always there when it rains) when he spun. I've seen where other people have gone 4-off hitting the same along-the-track stream - including people in the middle of their run group on the out lap.


Norm

[GunMetalGrey]

I decided to go with Hawk DCT70’s for the track based on Kens advice from KNS and their price... given the far greater friction level compared to the stock pads, it will be interesting to see what the experience will be like at the track combined with the SC3R tires on May 22nd

Will I encounter any problems going from stock brake compound I use to daily drive to the Hawk DCT70 on a track day that I need to take into account considering these pads will be using the same rotor?

I mean anything above and beyond the normal bedding procedures that apply when switching to new pads?

[RamAir02]

I realize this thread is a few years old, but I found it searching and wanted to recognize the great discussion and wealth of information in this thread. Really interesting points, especially from TrackClub & Norm, but a lot of great contributions overall.

Personally, I just ordered my first set of DS1.11 pads to try this season. I've been on the OEM Ferodo HP1000s exclusively. I'll still be running SC3R tires and was pretty close to pulling the trigger on DTC60s on all four corners, but decided to give the DS1.11s a shot first.

I've been pretty content with teh OEM Ferodo HP1000s, but notice the pedal will get a little soft sometimes at the end of a 25 minute session. The bigger issue, however, is that as I've gotten quicker the last few years, the pad wear has gotten SUPER uneven. I know now that I should rotate the pads, but by the time I realized the uneven wear on my two most recent sets, they were down to the wear bars on the low side. Quick video clip of the pads I took off yesterday below.

I'm hoping for a *little* better life out of the DS1.11s and I've heard they're a *bit* friendlier to rotors than the Hawks. We'll see. I'll likely try DTC60s later in the season.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-beM3Ead2Y0