[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JSH

The rhythm of the idle is much like mine. The problem is, like other vendors, Hennessey won't tell me the specs of my cam. To be 100% sure, we would have to pull and mic it, then order a new one. Or I could call a few vendors to see if they have any knowledge of HPE's cam specs.

I can about bet a blue bill that HPE uses a stage 2 variant in their builds. That is what most shops use because it offers decent driveability and performance for a wide range of applications. I can tell you right now that more cam isn't going to gain you much. You are going to window your block before needing more cam.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Might be a good option for a turbo application.

It is so much work to install a DOD delete and cam, I just can't see installing a cam just for the Lobe unless it is for a restricted class of racing.

I developed the Terminator cam working from what I saw in the stock cam because it was a very good foundation.

I also have a smooth Idle version that makes similar power.

Both have 32% lobes.

Ted.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Might be a good option for a turbo application.

It is so much work to install a DOD delete and cam, I just can't see installing a cam just for the Lobe unless it is for a restricted class of racing.

I developed the Terminator cam working from what I saw in the stock cam because it was a very good foundation.

I also have a smooth Idle version that makes similar power.

Both have 32% lobes.

Ted.

The engine wouldn't be coming apart for just a DOD delete. It would be getting rods and pistons while it's apart.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The engine wouldn't be coming apart for just a DOD delete. It would be getting rods and pistons while it's apart.

Not a bad Idea for sure.

But we have had stellar results without rods and pistons as well.

Not everyone has the budget to do it all and we are sensitive to that.

So we offer packages that give the most bang for the buck with reliability at the forefront.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Not a bad Idea for sure.

But we have had stellar results without rods and pistons as well.

Not everyone has the budget to do it all and we are sensitive to that.

So we offer packages that give the most bang for the buck with reliability at the forefront.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

I understand but...

My car is already pushing close to the limits of where you take these stock bottom end LT1's. I assume it could be pushed another 50whp higher if I had the fuel headroom. E85 allows us to make a lot more reliable power on this platform as you know. I simply cannot see tearing into the motor for heads/cam and not doing rods pistons. That seems counter intuitive to me from where I am at now.

For a customer coming to you with a bone stock car, I totally understand and see the value in your package.

If I did the Big fuel drop in cam, the cost savings vs doing a larger cam that would require valve springs, retainers, pushrods, better lifters, trunnion upgrade, pays for a good chunk of the rods/pistons set.

A stock bottom LT1 with heads/cam and 10 psi of boost is going to make low 700ish whp on pump. The limit will be around 750whp on E due to the stock pistons.

A drop in big fuel cam with forged rod/piston is now strong enough to make 900+ even though I don't plan to go that far. With my current XDI +30, LPE HPFP, and low side, That 32% lobe should provide enough fuel to turn my Whipple up from 10-11 psi to 14-15psi on E60 and it's still efficient. On E60 that should be enough for close 780 to 800whp with my mods. Now if I was running out of supercharger efficiency like LT4 cars do then yeah it would make far more sense to make more power on motor with bigger cam/ ported heads and not add boost. But the Whipple 2.9 is easily a 14-15psi unit.

That's using stock OEM reliable valvetrain with DOD deleted and not an aftermarket cam spring combo that tend wear out at a much faster rate.

Now don't get me wrong I do think your Terminator package is a solid foundation. I am not sold on one direction or the other yet. Still in the planning stages because honestly, it's difficult for me to want to tear apart a perfectly strong running combination as is. It's only money right!!


Merry Christmas!

[Smokin19]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I understand but...

My car is already pushing close to the limits of where you take these stock bottom end LT1's. I assume it could be pushed another 50whp higher if I had the fuel headroom. E85 allows us to make a lot more reliable power on this platform as you know. I simply cannot see tearing into the motor for heads/cam and not doing rods pistons. That seems counter intuitive to me from where I am at now.

For a customer coming to you with a bone stock car, I totally understand and see the value in your package.

If I did the Big fuel drop in cam, the cost savings vs doing a larger cam that would require valve springs, retainers, pushrods, better lifters, trunnion upgrade, pays for a good chunk of the rods/pistons set.

A stock bottom LT1 with heads/cam and 10 psi of boost is going to make low 700ish whp on pump. The limit will be around 750whp on E due to the stock pistons.

A drop in big fuel cam with forged rod/piston is now strong enough to make 900+ even though I don't plan to go that far. With my current XDI +30, LPE HPFP, and low side, That 32% lobe should provide enough fuel to turn my Whipple up from 10-11 psi to 14-15psi on E60 and it's still efficient. On E60 that should be enough for close 780 to 800whp with my mods. Now if I was running out of supercharger efficiency like LT4 cars do then yeah it would make far more sense to make more power on motor with bigger cam/ ported heads and not add boost. But the Whipple 2.9 is easily a 14-15psi unit.

That's using stock OEM reliable valvetrain with DOD deleted and not an aftermarket cam spring combo that tend wear out at a much faster rate.

Now don't get me wrong I do think your Terminator package is a solid foundation. I am not sold on one direction or the other yet. Still in the planning stages because honestly, it's difficult for me to want to tear apart a perfectly strong running combination as is. It's only money right!!


Merry Christmas!

Am I wrong in understanding the LT-1 is running different compression than an LT-4? So you didn't change out pistons for the Whipple? Seems you are right in swapping out now. I am running stock vlvs and heads with upgraded (.660") springs, retainers, lifters and trunions. Runs at 14.5 to 15.0 psi and the Kong Xport seems very efficient. We did not tune for the most, only the safest. Good luck with your build.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Am I wrong in understanding the LT-1 is running different compression than an LT-4? So you didn't change out pistons for the Whipple? Seems you are right in swapping out now. I am running stock vlvs and heads with upgraded (.660") springs, retainers, lifters and trunions. Runs at 14.5 to 15.0 psi and the Kong Xport seems very efficient. We did not tune for the most, only the safest. Good luck with your build.

Yeah the LT4 is a different ball game altogether. The LT1 doesn't require as much boost to make similar power to the LT4 due to higher compression but it's a weaker engine. The LT1 is 11.5:1 compression vs the LT4's 10:1...it has weaker pistons that have very tight ring gaps compared to the LT4. However I have been running on the stone stock LT1 long block with about 10psi avg boost for 4+ years now. I believe it has lived due to running Ethanol fuel since about 1 month after I bought the car back in 2017. Based on what the car runs it's probably in the 680-700whp range.

The LT1 heads while they flow good are also not as robust as the LT4's due to different casting methods. The LT4 also has better valves. From what I have seen the stock LT1 valve seats won't tolerate much instability before they chip away and cause failure. The LT4's seem to do much better when throwing dual springs on the stock heads and running a high lift cam.

Supposedly BTR's second generation camshafts have resolved some of these issues. They used a spintron machine to develop these new lobes. Which basically means they window a LT engine block, mount a lazer in that window, and monitor the valve events at different rpms and loads. By doing this they were able to reduce all Valve bounce after the valve closes with their new lobes.


Right now I am just in planning stages. It's -40 below and not much else to do at the moment. lol

1) Big fuel stock profile cam with rods/ 11.5:1 pistons.

2) PRC LTx heads, BTR PDS stage 1(215/23x .639 .639 115), Rods/ 11.5:1 Pistons.

Either direction would hit my goals. Option 2 gives room for more growth...however really anything over 800whp on the street is practically useless.

I do think it would be wise to balance and upgrade thrust bearing if going through the effort. Unfortunately, all LT engines have a shitty thrust bearing so even the LT4 is really rolling the dice above 800whp on the SBE with a belt driven supercharger. Turbos can extend power out a bit further reliably.

So not sure if I will just drop them in and send it. I also want to keep the compression stock because I never plan on running anything other than Ethanol.

I agree the X port does really well. It transforms the LT4 blower from what I have seen. I have tuned like 3 of them now...pretty impressed.

[adamjwilson]

@KingLT1- TSP stopped shipping until the beginning of the new year. The speed shop I am working with does not recommend BTR or GPI cams as they have had issues with both in the past. They have had good luck with TSP cams (several C7s and Camaros with lots of miles with no issues) My cam and another one for a ZL1 is waiting to be shipped by TSP... TSP is waiting on cam cores or something like that, so that is the hold up on mine... guess my build goes into January.... (but will tune with E85/E50 when it gets done with a shot of meth here and there.)

[KingLT1]

I believe the issues some experienced with BTR cams was with their old lobes. Not the newly designed lobes. That is why Mr. Tooley invested a lot of money bringing a spintron machine in-house to develop smoother lobes that do not cause valve bounce. That is what tears up the valve seats...especially on stock LT1 heads. TSP had a lot of issues with the same thing and even had a disclaimer posted about using ported stock heads. There are several threads posted in the bolt-on section about it.

[adamjwilson]

KingLT1- just going with the comments on the owner of the local speed shop. He will not use BTR or GPI cams due to all the issues he had in the past. Has anyone posted anything CURRENT on TSP cams with recent builds? Again, everyone has opinions, but Avery at TSP assured me that they do not have any valve seat issues now with the current TSP cams. The cam they are working on is a custom grind with a fuel lobe 32%- they did not provide me all the other specs at the moment. I am happy with their products so far, so I press on.

[KingLT1]

I agree on opinions...I have a shop local to me that uses nothing but BTR stuff and they claim no issues. The V220 NA cam for 6th gens and Truck Norris cam for Truck/SUV have been what they are using. Doesn't mean I think BTR is the best. TSP has also redesigned cams over the years. Personally I have always been a fan of Cam motion stuff. This is my 3rd Camaro over the last 20 years. I have been tuning cars for almost a decade now. I put a Procharger on a 1996 Z28 M6 back in 2003 when the P1sc first came out. I have done heads/cam builds on LS1's. This isn't my first rodeo and I definitely never take what 1 shop says as gospel. I am not here to play who knows it all. I have been screwed over by shops. I have made mistakes on combinations. I started tuning my own stuff because 90% of the shops out there will never finish the tune proper. So I just like to share experience so hopefully it saves others time, headaches, and frustration. I hope your build goes well for you!

[adamjwilson]

KingLT1- totally agree with what you said. I appreciate and value your guidance on this forum and I am sure most the guys/gals here do too. Finding a good shop is critical and finding a good tuner can sometimes be a journey. I have had several discussions with my tuner and not 100% sold on what he has done so far, so I am sure I will have a more in-depth conversation on my expectations when he tunes it again. The few tuners I have talked to are always talking HP gains but reliability for me is more important. Someone will always be faster..lol and my pockets are not bottomless pits!

[ZLRob]

Just wanted to update this thread as no one else is running the BTR "stock cam big fuel" cam, at least on record outside of myself.

LT4 engine so injectors, high pressure and low pressure fuel pump are all LT4 naturally. Running a JMS on the low side to maintain low fuel pressure and obviously the 32% lobe this cam has through all of these mods.

With some tuning to near precise commanded and actual EQ's I'm currently pushing E50 with the LT4 blower and a 12% pulley with this cam making 13.3 psi. Power is easily north of 650 whp (early indicators have told me I'm in the neighborhood of 680 whp) and the entire setup seems to be hungry for more Ethanol, as in, the pressures and PW's have more headroom for a higher ethanol content %.

Personally, for a street car close to 700 is all the power you will need before its rendered "undriveable." This cam is awesome and is the missing link that would have made the stock GM cam a much stronger contender for mods if it overdrove the pump like it does now in the very first place.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

Just wanted to update this thread as no one else is running the BTR "stock cam big fuel" cam, at least on record outside of myself.

LT4 engine so injectors, high pressure and low pressure fuel pump are all LT4 naturally. Running a JMS on the low side to maintain low fuel pressure and obviously the 32% lobe this cam has through all of these mods.

With some tuning to near precise commanded and actual EQ's I'm currently pushing E50 with the LT4 blower and a 12% pulley with this cam making 13.3 psi. Power is easily north of 650 whp (early indicators have told me I'm in the neighborhood of 680 whp) and the entire setup seems to be hungry for more Ethanol, as in, the pressures and PW's have more headroom for a higher ethanol content %.

Personally, for a street car close to 700 is all the power you will need before its rendered "undriveable." This cam is awesome and is the missing link that would have made the stock GM cam a much stronger contender for mods if it overdrove the pump like it does now in the very first place.

Cool Concept, Just for reference, a completely stock fuel system and cam can support and will make 670 RWHP with Rotofab, 95 mm TB, LT headers, JMS, tuning on STOCK PULLEYS at E-60.

The cam lobe will add another 100 RWHP of fueling so I expect you would be well in to 750 RWHP with your set up.

Ted.