[Raisin Man]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

I would wait a couple of years. These cars are going to go back up in value.

They won't make this car for much longer and we already know the Hellcat is done.

Guys don't want electric "performance" cars; they want a V8. When you can't buy those anymore, prices will go up.

This is true. Like your phone and computers, EV's will bring on planned obsolescence and EV owners will be beholden to dealers for costly maintenance, parts and software upgrades. Count on it...

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Raisin Man

This is true. Like your phone and computers, EV's will bring on planned obsolescence and EV owners will be beholden to dealers for costly maintenance, parts and software upgrades. Count on it...

Sort of like today with the complexity of ICE vehicles and their dozens of sensors and electronic wizardry.

[Raisin Man]

Originally Posted by SATINSTEEL1LE

...I'd take no less than sticker for it at least - and that was before I put on the maggie. Now i'd sell it for $10k over its sticker for a built maggie 21 ZL1...

I think you're dreaming. Owners of modded cars only very rarely recapture the price of the mods upon resale. Among other issues, too many questions about the parts and quality of the mods, including improper installation. Engine mods often have unintended consequences for the reliability of the engine, and used car buyers are aware of potential problems. I've been to multiple track events where cars that have had blowers added or "improved" were puking coolant - mostly due to inadequate cooling for the extra heat associated with a bigger (or different) blower. Other problems too, of course.

[Raisin Man]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Sort of like today with the complexity of ICE vehicles and their dozens of sensors and electronic wizardry.

Also agree, only worse with EV's. At least I can still purchase aftermarket, non-OE parts for most of my vehicles if I so choose. EV's maybe good for urban drivers, delivery vehicles, or for people that view automobiles as mere appliances, but as an automobile enthusiast I'm just not interested. My independent Mercedes mechanic (who I've used for about 15 years) talks with a lot of MB mechanics employed by dealers. MB already electronically"coding" certain parts in new hybrid power trains which require some MB dealer computer-generated codes before they'll work properly. Doesn't take too much in the way of imagination to see where this is headed.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Sort of like today with the complexity of ICE vehicles and their dozens of sensors and electronic wizardry.

Originally Posted by Raisin Man

Also agree, only worse with EV's. At least I can still purchase aftermarket, non-OE parts for most of my vehicles if I so choose. EV's maybe good for urban drivers, delivery vehicles, or for people that view automobiles as mere appliances, but as an automobile enthusiast I'm just not interested. My independent Mercedes mechanic (who I've used for about 15 years) talks with a lot of MB mechanics employed by dealers. MB already electronically"coding" certain parts in new hybrid power trains which require some MB dealer computer-generated codes before they'll work properly. Doesn't take too much in the way of imagination to see where this is headed.

Like what John Deere used to do with their farm equipment. Farmers would have to take their equipment back to a dealer or have "Deere" certified techs come work on their equipment. They designed the equipment to shutdown when it sensed something was wrong.

So if the cat went out, the system would shut the equipment down and now you have to get a dealer or tech to come out and fix the issue then reset the system with their proprietary software.

But the Government finally stepped in early this year and are having them undo this. While Deere makes it sound like they weren't aware that people want to work on their own equipment they paid for..... but explain this software was needed because they don't want the farmers to mess with it and cause the equipment to act unsafe. Right.....

So wait until EVs are in full swing and I bet this will start to happen as well.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by Raisin Man

This is true. Like your phone and computers, EV's will bring on planned obsolescence and EV owners will be beholden to dealers for costly maintenance, parts and software upgrades. Count on it...

Uh, no. My wife ran a Kia Soul EV for about 2-1/2 years for her job whose commute and client visit routes required about 3200km = 2000 miles per month. We had ZERO maintenance costs or software upgrades for the entire time. We sold the EV only because we could get GREAT money for it during the height of the COVID car crisis, and because we were moving to a part of Canada where oil is king and EV charging stations basically don't exist (yet).

The fuel for her previous vehicle, a TURBO Kia Soul, cost us $425 per month when gas was still cheap. The electricity for the EV cost us $73 per month average.

Jim G

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

Uh, no. My wife ran a Kia Soul EV for about 2-1/2 years for her job whose commute and client visit routes required about 3200km = 2000 miles per month. We had ZERO maintenance costs or software upgrades for the entire time. We sold the EV only because we could get GREAT money for it during the height of the COVID car crisis, and because we were moving to a part of Canada where oil is king and EV charging stations basically don't exist (yet).

The fuel for her previous vehicle, a TURBO Kia Soul, cost us $425 per month when gas was still cheap. The electricity for the EV cost us $73 per month average.

Jim G

Sounds about right, we spend even less per month on electricity for our Tesla. We get a great EV rate through our power company.

[JTS]

Originally Posted by David Gordon

Interest rates are back where they sould have been. 5.5% is not a high interest rate..
Look at past 30 year interest rates.

Purchased my first house in 1984, Interest rate was 13.375% 30 yr fixed , Regan years, 1988 refinance 8.5% to 30 yr fixed, 1999 6.38 15 yr fixed , paid off 2014. 5 to 7 % about normal , I think the days of free money as it was called 2to 3 % was artificial.

[Zr8000]

Originally Posted by David Gordon

I wanted to sell or trade my car in and was offered 58-62. I only bought the car because I saw used ZL1s selling for MSRP on new ones or higher. I want to trade it for a Tahoe, dealer said maybe 60k WoW.

Zl1 are selling for 70k plus tax here for a new one. At 60k for a trade, then the dealer putting a 15% mark up so they can pay bills puts at the price of a brand new one. No one buying that type of car will buy used when they can get a new one. They would have to be closer to 55k on a trade to make it worth their time and enough price difference to attract someone that would go used.

[Raisin Man]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

Uh, no. My wife ran a Kia Soul EV for about 2-1/2 years for her job whose commute and client visit routes required about 3200km = 2000 miles per month. We had ZERO maintenance costs or software upgrades for the entire time. We sold the EV only because we could get GREAT money for it during the height of the COVID car crisis, and because we were moving to a part of Canada where oil is king and EV charging stations basically don't exist (yet).

The fuel for her previous vehicle, a TURBO Kia Soul, cost us $425 per month when gas was still cheap. The electricity for the EV cost us $73 per month average.

Jim G

Let me know how much the new owner will need to pay for a replacement battery pack (and the disposal of the old one), if they're available. Might be more than the car is worth...

[Raisin Man]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Like what John Deere used to do with their farm equipment. Farmers would have to take their equipment back to a dealer or have "Deere" certified techs come work on their equipment. They designed the equipment to shutdown when it sensed something was wrong.

So if the cat went out, the system would shut the equipment down and now you have to get a dealer or tech to come out and fix the issue then reset the system with their proprietary software.

But the Government finally stepped in early this year and are having them undo this. While Deere makes it sound like they weren't aware that people want to work on their own equipment they paid for..... but explain this software was needed because they don't want the farmers to mess with it and cause the equipment to act unsafe. Right.....

So wait until EVs are in full swing and I bet this will start to happen as well.

I'm just not as confident as you are that the government will be running to the rescue. As President Reagan once said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help. “

[BoilerKB]

It was crazy-town earlier but prices have clearly come back to earth. I bought my 2019 ZL1 vert for $67,599.95 (before taxes) in April 2020 and got 0% for 84 months. Fast forward to this summer when things were crazy, and with an impending economic recession, I wanted to make sure I had no debt so I sold it back to the dealer for $65k at 18,000 mi. They listed it for $79k. Sat on the lot for over 2 months and the last I saw, it was down to $69k before it disappeared. Glad I got out while I did. Took the cash and bought a used Wrangler that should hold its resale.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by Raisin Man

Let me know how much the new owner will need to pay for a replacement battery pack (and the disposal of the old one), if they're available. Might be more than the car is worth...

Actually, the battery prices have been declining, and will decline a LOT once EVs are everyday / everywhere vehicles. And the battery specifically on our Kia was warranted for some ridiculously long time period and/or mileage way beyond the time or miles we normally keep a car.

Back in the early 2000s, maybe around 2010 or 2012, I owned a Honda Insight hybrid. I bought it already well used and the battery pack started to weaken in the 2nd year I owned it. I took it to a Honda dealer, and Honda replaced it for no cost. I asked the service advisor what it would have cost if it had not still been under the long warranty period. Now this was 2010 or 1012, so take normal inflation into account, but he quoted $1650.

When you consider the electricity versus gasoline savings I described for the Kia Soul EV, even a new battery after many years and miles would STILL make the car a money saver.

Jim G

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Raisin Man

I'm just not as confident as you are that the government will be running to the rescue. As President Reagan once said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help. “

Biden signed an executive order for the FTC to look into this so the wheels are in motion.