[Chrome383Z]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but you are now just making up criteria that suits you. Weight has zero to do with being an exciting/interesting/engaging car to drive.

Disagree. Mazda Miata’s have and still are considered one of the best cars for driver engagement and track performance. Why? Because they weigh like 2300lbs or so.

There are limits to tires and brakes.

(For the price paid, I’ll throw that in there)

[genxer]

"The challenge facing many automakers of enthusiast vehicles is figuring out how to inject some personality and drama into a performance EV. We have seen what Dodge has announced so far... Not an easy task."

How does this happen, when the philosophy is largely to: cater to people that would rather sleep/game/eat/watch videos than drive; and: satisfy bean-counting loving investors by serving up Goldilocks porridge iterations of a common layout? Regardless of how well engineered.

The reverence of a machine and it's interaction with, from the driver, isn't there with this stuff. There were people here that could write eloquently about this, that are missed at times like this.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by genxer

"The challenge facing many automakers of enthusiast vehicles is figuring out how to inject some personality and drama into a performance EV. We have seen what Dodge has announced so far... Not an easy task."

How does this happen, when the philosophy is largely to: cater to people that would rather sleep/game/eat/watch videos than drive; and: satisfy bean-counting loving investors by serving up Goldilocks porridge iterations of a common layout? Regardless of how well engineered.

The reverence of a machine and it's interaction with, from the driver, isn't there with this stuff. There were people here that could write eloquently about this, that are missed at times like this.

They are still trying to figure it out. Take a listen to the chief engineer of the Cadillac Blackwing when asked these same questions.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GE5hmc6ACMA

[Gen6cyl]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

They are still trying to figure it out. Take a listen to the chief engineer of the Cadillac Blackwing when asked these same questions.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GE5hmc6ACMA

You own a model 3. How far is it from giving driving satisfaction?

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but you are now just making up criteria that suits you. Weight has zero to do with being an exciting/interesting/engaging car to drive.

Probably. It's a day that ends in Y and I'm human. Drove my bro-in-law's Leaf for 3 weeks while house sitting last year. Not a bad little car to drive at 3300lbs, and a bit of weight actually seemed to improve the highway ride vs. typical subcompact ICE econoboxes. Better than a CVT Corolla. Lots of pep in town, but handling was kinda meh, and range on that car is scary small with a 30kWh battery. Maybe range anxiety wears off or you get used to it, but it's hard to feel the freedom of the open road when one's canyon carving is limited to 40 or 50 miles total.

What attributes are important to you in a "driver's car?"

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but you are now just making up criteria that suits you. Weight has zero to do with being an exciting/interesting/engaging car to drive.

Newsflash! My money, I’ll ‘make up’ whatever criteria I want. If the manufacturer doesn’t meet those criteria they don’t get my money. Very simple.

My daily driver must:

1. Be fun to drive
2. Be very fast
3. Look cool
4. Be reliable
5. Sound good
6. Have lots of aftermarket go fast goodies available
7. Be refuel able at any GAS station.

If it gets the Green crowd upset that’s a bonus.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Probably. It's a day that ends in Y and I'm human. Drove my bro-in-law's Leaf for 3 weeks while house sitting last year. Not a bad little car to drive at 3300lbs, and a bit of weight actually seemed to improve the highway ride vs. typical subcompact ICE econoboxes. Better than a CVT Corolla. Lots of pep in town, but handling was kinda meh, and range on that car is scary small with a 30kWh battery. Maybe range anxiety wears off or you get used to it, but it's hard to feel the freedom of the open road when one's canyon carving is limited to 40 or 50 miles total.

What attributes are important to you in a "driver's car?"

Leaf is not a great example as its mission is cheap and the trade off was low range.

For me it’s ride and handling balance, braking and steering feel. Ergonomics plays a huge deal as now that we have two SUVs.in the family I miss my FWD LaCrosse lol.

I do get the engine sound issue. A really big fan actually. But I’ve spent a lot of hours trying to make vehicles smoother and quieter. And other than wanting engine sound (C8 engineers had to modify the exhaust because as a rear engine car you couldn’t heat it) performance already has key metrics, 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap Tim, braking distance. Then you add the subjective “how did it feel doing it”.

It’s a good discussion actually, but one we as enthusiasts can’t have because EVs on this site have been politicized and demonized to the point where you will hear enthusiasts actually say,”it doesn’t matter how fast it is…….”.

But your question may be the best and most pertinent in all of the EV threads.

And yes, there is an exhaust aftermarket just for that pesky NVH issue.

And btw, yes, I paid money for carbon cans on my Ducati 916 just for that purpose, and HD tried to patent their 45 degree V Twin exhaust note. So it is absolutely a key to his discussion, it’s just not the only one IMO.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Newsflash! My money, I’ll ‘make up’ whatever criteria I want. If the manufacturer doesn’t meet those criteria they don’t get my money. Very simple.

My daily driver must:

1. Be fun to drive
2. Be very fast
3. Look cool
4. Be reliable
5. Sound good
6. Have lots of aftermarket go fast goodies available
7. Be refuel able at any GAS station.

If it gets the Green crowd upset that’s a bonus.

You are not alone as much as certain people may want you to think you are alone you are not. In my case personally a truck which we would use for towing needs to be ICE and I want my fun car to be ICE. I haven't thought about the DD too much but I don't have a place to charge one since the Camaro has the garage. I still like people to have a choice when buying what they want for a DD. You should not be forced to go into an EV if you do not want too.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

You are not alone as much as certain people may want you to think you are alone you are not. In my case personally a truck which we would use for towing needs to be ICE and I want my fun car to be ICE. I haven't thought about the DD too much but I don't have a place to charge one since the Camaro has the garage. I still like people to have a choice when buying what they want for a DD. You should not be forced to go into an EV if you do not want too.

Thanks! We're in agreement. What I find truly ironic is that the crowd who are trying to force everyone else into EVs complains that the EV question has become politicized. Well duh! When you're passing regulations and laws designed to increase the cost of ICE vehicles and force people to give up their vehicles of choice, then yeah, the issue becomes politicized.

If all the tree huggers would let the market decide it wouldn't be political.

But no, they know better than everyone else so they want the rest of us to 'just trust them' that the grid will be miraculously upgraded, EV charging stations will appear like magic everywhere, all the shortcomings of EVs will magically disappear if we just wish hard enough, and to cap it off, the 'transition' (great word for some) to EVs is just like the transition to cars.

Of course a BIG difference is that government regulations had ZERO to do with the transition to cars, while government regulations have EVERYTHING to do with the current 'transition' which BTW is never going to happen.

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

You are not alone as much as certain people may want you to think you are alone you are not. In my case personally a truck which we would use for towing needs to be ICE and I want my fun car to be ICE. I haven't thought about the DD too much but I don't have a place to charge one since the Camaro has the garage. I still like people to have a choice when buying what they want for a DD. You should not be forced to go into an EV if you do not want too.

+1

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Thanks! We're in agreement. What I find truly ironic is that the crowd who are trying to force everyone else into EVs complains that the EV question has become politicized. Well duh! When you're passing regulations and laws designed to increase the cost of ICE vehicles and force people to give up their vehicles of choice, then yeah, the issue becomes politicized.

If all the tree huggers would let the market decide it wouldn't be political.

But no, they know better than everyone else so they want the rest of us to 'just trust them' that the grid will be miraculously upgraded, EV charging stations will appear like magic everywhere, all the shortcomings of EVs will magically disappear if we just wish hard enough, and to cap it off, the 'transition' (great word for some) to EVs is just like the transition to cars.

Of course a BIG difference is that government regulations had ZERO to do with the transition to cars, while government regulations have EVERYTHING to do with the current 'transition' which BTW is never going to happen.

+1

My garage my choice

[redcoats1976]

im sure it will happen...eventually.right now there are a lot of obstacles to a 100% EV fleet.some,such as lack of charging stations,will take care of themselves if people choose EVs en masse,others,such as lack of rare earth materials and the damage to the earth caused by mining them,may never be resolved.as to transportation sharing,i wouldnt want to give up my personal car to ride in some grotty,germ ridden mass people mover,even if it was cleaned and disinfected twice daily.

[ZED SLED]

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

They called it fear mongering... until they too were forced to comply.

"It's a voluntary program. Let's remember that this is something that customers choose to be a part of based on the incentives," said Emmett Romine, vice president of customer solutions and innovation at Xcel.

But Talarico said he had no idea that he could be locked out of the thermostat. While he has solar panels and a smart thermostat to save energy, he says he did not sign up to have this much control taken away."To me, an emergency means there is, you know, life, limb, or, you know, some other danger out there — some, you know, massive wildfires," Talarico said. "Even if it's a once-in-a-blue-moon situation, it just doesn't sit right with us to not be able to control our own thermostat in our house."

Thousands of Xcel customers locked out of thermostats during 'energy emergency'

[keep_hope_alive]

It would make financial sense for EV manufacturers to adopt the universal skateboard concept that GM wanted to do over 20 years ago (that I saw in Popular Mechanics in the 90's). Many have the "skateboard" now but change wheelbase to fit vehicle categories. Back then, GM said that you could just go into the dealer for a "quick body swap" to turn your sedan into a truck or van or SUV or convertible. So you could own the skateboard chassis and just lease the "body". Back then, that is what GM thought we would want. I wish I had saved those magazines.

On the topic of performance, with as quick and computer controlled as EV are, I can see a subscription fee to unlock performance capabilities that would be inherent in all cars. So, you buy the base model with the performance and handling of the Malibu. Then for $xxx per month you get speed and handling of a Camaro. With electronically controlled suspensions, you could pretty easily mimic many handling types (i.e. 1990 Cutlass vs 1977 Lincoln vs a 1LE package). Now, the true enthusiast would know the difference between real suspension travel, chassis flex, body roll, etc. and simulated thru magride dampers, but the typical consumer would not.