[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

nice,but does it come with two fewer doors?i like my wifes civic 2 door better than that...considering it gets about 35 in town and 40 on the highway payoff on an electric caddy would be long after im dead.

I think it is just a concept car to get the folks ready for the next generation of Cadillac sedans.

[arpad_m]

I hope it's just a concept car, because it's ugly as sin...

[BlueDog17]

No

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I hope it's just a concept car, because it's ugly as sin...

The rear end is funky.

[Jeb114]

Even has SS on the grille!

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

Attachment 1105032
Even has SS on the grille!

Meanwhile over at Dodge the E-muscle car renderings look like this. There would be no comparison for an enthusiast buyer, especially since styling will be a more important differentiator than ever when it comes to EVs.

[redcoats1976]

yup.i could almost see myself in an e-challenger.although renaming it charger would be waaaay to easy.im kind of surprised someone doesnt boldly go where no stylist has gone before instead of four doors picture gull wing doors but longer to allow rear seat acess.no grill,just not needed.cab forward design for optimum space usage inside. something different for a change...

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I absolutely think Tesla should be the baseline. Tesla is enjoying first mover advantage but now all the competition is coming. I think the traditional manufacturers will have actually have better build quality and nicer interiors than Tesla but they have some catching up to do as it relates to the powertrain, software control systems and OTA updates. Tesla batteries and motors are more efficient and more powerful than the 1st gen stuff we will see from the traditional players. Learning how to control dual motor setups and have them feel natural will take some time. Control systems, software update, etc. all require a new set of skills. GM is now hiring software developers that are required to manage the software updates and monetize the software features.

You have to think of EVs as a platform now, much like our smart phones, cable services, gaming systems. You buy this hardware platform which will be enabled with new features as you own the vehicle. Performance boosts, ability to add new apps, etc. My Tesla UI and features have change quite a bit since I first bought it in 2019. When I first got it there was no "brake hold" so you could only use the reg braking until about 5-10mph and then you had to apply the friction brakes. Then you get an update and bam, you can enable brake hold. Initially, the car only used the backup camera for reverse, then they said why not add the two side cameras on the fenders as well for more camera angles. So, the OTA updates are not just fart noises and games but they can keep tweaking the UI and improve the driving experience. In the first year of ownership the car received two performance boost updates, adding about 30-40hp on my Model 3 Performance. It knocked about 2 tenths off the 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times.

The question of what price range EV features is a "baseline" is a distraction. If you want to switch to an EV because it is faster, quieter, or because a SW update can reduce your 0 to 60 time, by all means, go for it. If you are doing it to help the environment, you are wasting your money.

But, since you haven't actually responded to any of the issues I raised previously, we are probably done here.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

The question of what price range EV features is a "baseline" is a distraction. If you want to switch to an EV because it is faster, quieter, or because a SW update can reduce your 0 to 60 time, by all means, go for it. If you are doing it to help the environment, you are wasting your money.

But, since you haven't actually responded to any of the issues I raised previously, we are probably done here.

I did respond based on my actual experience of owning an EV. I can't help it if you don't like the answers. As for saving the environment, that is not the reason I purchased an EV. I will leave that up to the environmentalists and politicians. However, if you research the topic, you will find that the latest analysis shows that it depends on the power grid generation mix, in the US you need to drive about 13,500 miles in an EV before you are as green as a Toyota Corolla. So, manufacturing EVs is not a clean process but the science says if you convert millions of cars from ICE to BEV over time we will reduce the carbon emissions moving forward. IMO, EVs make great daily drivers if you mostly drive around town and can charge at home. It costs me about $6 in electricity to add 220 miles of range while charging at home. Depending on the ICE vehicle that same 220 miles will cost $30 to $60 depending on the gas mileage. We use the EV as the daily workhorse and the ZL1 is the fun car with lots of personality. Best of both worlds is the solution for us right now.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...asoline-models

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I did respond based on my actual experience of owning an EV. I can't help it if you don't like the answers. As for saving the environment, that is not the reason I purchased an EV. I will leave that up to the environmentalists and politicians. However, if you research the topic, you will find that the latest analysis shows that it depends on the power grid generation mix, in the US you need to drive about 13,500 miles in an EV before you are as green as a Toyota Corolla. So, manufacturing EVs is not a clean process but the science says if you convert millions of cars from ICE to BEV over time we will reduce the carbon emissions moving forward. IMO, EVs make great daily drivers if you mostly drive around town and can charge at home. It costs me about $6 in electricity to add 220 miles of range while charging at home. Depending on the ICE vehicle that same 220 miles will cost $30 to $60 depending on the gas mileage. We use the EV as the daily workhorse and the ZL1 is the fun car with lots of personality. Best of both worlds is the solution for us right now.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...asoline-models

I never said changing to EV's wouldn't reduce our carbon footprint. EV's are the rich countries silver bullet approach to addressing the transportation piece of climate change in lieu of not being willing to do anything practical about it for the past 40+ years

I'm saying there is no equivalency between the environmental damage done by ICE vehicle operation and that done by EV vehicle operation. They are completely different and any "study" that proposes the existence of an equivalency hasn't "studied" the effects of water shortages in South America caused by lithium mining.

[samurai]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Meanwhile over at Dodge the E-muscle car renderings look like this. There would be no comparison for an enthusiast buyer, especially since styling will be a more important differentiator than ever when it comes to EVs.

Attachment 1105046

Yeah don't mix up renderings that want to show a production car with a completely overstlyed rendering that would never be a production car.


Here's the glimpse we got from Dodge, it won't look like the rendering at all.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think it is just a concept car to get the folks ready for the next generation of Cadillac sedans.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I hope it's just a concept car, because it's ugly as sin...

Originally Posted by raptor5244

The rear end is funky.

Show car yes but likely 95% production. It will be super low volume and hand built at the tech center in Michigan.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’m not a fan of Cadillac’s new C-pillar execution (see the Lyriq, very similar) but overall including the interior this is simply wonderful.

I believe the intent here here is simply to make a statement to get back to “the standard of the world” with luxury and technology. They use that historical quote on the head of some of fasteners.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by samurai

Yeah don't mix up renderings that want to show a production car with a completely overstlyed rendering that would never be a production car.


Here's the glimpse we got from Dodge, it won't look like the rendering at all.

Interesting that is has some sort of grill.

[Jeb114]

The Media is going to cover up the limitations of electric vehicles. This EV thing will fail. Credit to Motortrend for taking a close look!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/f...GO2H2UCCfYi84E