[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive

This admin is publicly proud of their goal to have half of new car sales be EV by 2030. It's at 5% now which is double last year. Last year's bill earmarked $7.5B for charging infrastructure. That's a ton of movement in just 2 years. The move to EV has been long and slow, what we look at is the curve/trend. I don't think the previous admin was against the move to EV, but their policy was focused on driving down energy costs. There's also this article: "Biden’s Push for Electric Cars: $174 Billion, 10 Years and a Bit of Luck"

Critics have reason to complain today. It is today's government literally saying that inflated energy costs are good because it's part of the pain to go to EV and renewables. This admin did purposely inflate energy prices through policy and readily admit so as recent as last week (Transportation Secretary), but with the spin that it's for the greater good. Low energy costs reduce feasibility for EV and renewables. Telling everyone to just go buy a new car is being out of touch with the majority of the population that simply can't, and financially shouldn't, do that.

None of that is to say that the push for infrastructure is bad. The lack of infrastructure needs to be solved, but not just at remote stations. All condo and apartment buildings with parking stalls will need them and that burden can't fall on the renter. Maybe market forces will result in building owners to use charging as a way to entice occupancy, but that will be slower than the move to 50% of new sales.

Sure this admin is for the move. Not disputing that. But this started way before the current government, that’s my point.

People think once the republicans get back into power, this will stop. It won’t. It didn’t stop when Trump lowered CAFE standards, won’t stop with the next Republican admin.

Another thing is this whole ICE banned by 2030/2035. To my knowledge, those are stated goals or whether it is feasible( this is in the US). To my knowledge none is actual hard bans. And frankly I have no problems with the goals. Will they be missed? Most likely, but it provides a point to work towards. Just like with Kennedy wanting us to be on the moon by the end of the 60’s. Just like Musk wants an August launch date for starship/super heavy. The end of the 60’s goal worked out. Super heavy won’t be launching by next month. But it provides motivation for SpaceX to work towards.

There are issues to be worked out. How about working on them vs just creating stand still and complaining…..

Look I’m not here to sell everyone on EV’s. I certainly get it why people like ICE for camaro’s and sports cars. I just grow tired of the crap I see.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Chevy just announced their SS Blazer EV, still several years away.

Blazer EV will start production in summer of 2023. One year from now. The SS version will start production in fall of 2023. About 15 months from now.

Originally Posted by 90503

If anything, they may show what Chevy is willing to do for EV performance, starting with this Blazer EV SS. Hopefully an EV Camaro is still a long way off, or else it will be just another brand X clone of every other EV they have made so far.

To me, all Chevy EVs are being rushed out, with the early adopters doing all the testing. The sameness is rampant, and soon to be deemed boring as hell, IMO. If the performance side is just given lip-service and hype (like the Blazer EV SS may turn out to be) then no Camaro now would be justified or desirable.

Chevrolet has two EVs in production. Bolt EV and Bolt EUV. They were both ready for production before I retired from GM in 2017. I drove production versions of the Bolt EV and test mule versions of the Bolt EUV before I left. The Blazer EV was in development before the pandemic. That or I am clairvoyant, because I put it in the vehicle forecast at my current company in 2019 with expectation for it to be in production by 2022. So it’s late to my forecast. Three years from first signs of life to introduction is right on par with normal vehicle development and launch timing. Maybe just a tad bit late, but there was that little pandemic thing that may have delayed things. If anything, GM is slow to market with their EVs. They’ve been talking about Cadillac Lyriq and Silverado EV for what seems like an eternity. Lyriq is just now making it to market and Silverado EV still isn’t here yet.

Originally Posted by 90503

What appears to be expensive up-grades in other models, look mainly like over-the-air software downloads that are intentionally held back, until you pay up, that is. What a scam and a rip-off. The whole format of EV ownership, pre-determined software limitations, unilateral and arbitrary over the air changes, all have a potentially horrific down-side to ownership and freedom of use and travel.

Software as a Service (SaaS) with Over the Air (OTA) updates doesn’t need EVs to become a thing. BMW is already doing this with their gas powered vehicles, although they pulled back from it in the US. They are still doing it in other markets. Several automakers are already doing OTA updates, EV or not.

Originally Posted by 90503

They may plan on installing millions of charging stations, but if there is no power for them, the future cost of charging and who controls when and how much electricity is available, all portend for a bleak future of auto ownership.

The woke platitudes driving an econmic agenda that EVs will save the planet and reverse climate change will soon be shown to be unworkable and unaffordable.

No thanks, I'll stay away from EVs for as long as legally and economically possible.

You’ll still have plenty of ICE vehicles to choose from. Camaro will simply not be one of them.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by cooldawg

It’s not the R vs. D thing. You buy that garbage? The vast bureaucracy always leans to uniformity and control. You think the EPA turns pro common sense/ free market when the Republicans hold majorities? They don’t call it the ‘uni-party’ for nothing.

I would just prefer to have a choice when it comes to what kind of new vehicle to buy, but that won’t happen because all must conform.

ICE vehicles will be around for several more decades at least. I expect I’ll be looking up at the lawn or in a tastefully decorated urn long before the last ICE vehicles are built.

Right now we are forecasting EV to be just over 30% of new vehicle sales in around 2030. That means 70% will still be ICE. We’ll be in the 2040s or 50s when it hits 50/50. Now, on the flip side, even though there will be plenty of ICE vehicles available, Camaro won’t be one of them.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Sure this admin is for the move. Not disputing that. But this started way before the current government, that’s my point.

People think once the republicans get back into power, this will stop. It won’t. It didn’t stop when Trump lowered CAFE standards, won’t stop with the next Republican admin.

GM announced their intent to go all electric in 2019. At the time the White House and both houses of Congress were under Republican control and the SAFER legislation relaxed fuel economy regulations. GM’s announcement was strategic, not reactive. To be honest, when I first saw it, I assumed they meant “electrified” not electric. That would include hybrids. But when I checked with friends who were still at GM, they confirmed that the commitment was for all-electric vehicles. Zero Emissions. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Another thing is this whole ICE banned by 2030/2035. To my knowledge, those are stated goals or whether it is feasible( this is in the US). To my knowledge none is actual hard bans.

Your are 100% correct. It started with California and has been picked up by several other states. In all cases they are presented as executive orders from the governors’ offices for the regulatory agencies in each state to come back with a plan to achieve bans on sales of vehicles that don’t achieve zero emissions. Thing is, in no state does the executive branch (governor) make laws. That is the responsibility of state legislatures. The governors can dispatch agencies to study what would have to be true to make it happen. But they cannot set the law.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

And frankly I have no problems with the goals. Will they be missed? Most likely, but it provides a point to work towards. Just like with Kennedy wanting us to be on the moon by the end of the 60’s. Just like Musk wants an August launch date for starship/super heavy. The end of the 60’s goal worked out. Super heavy won’t be launching by next month. But it provides motivation for SpaceX to work towards.

There are issues to be worked out. How about working on them vs just creating stand still and complaining…..

Look I’m not here to sell everyone on EV’s. I certainly get it why people like ICE for camaro’s and sports cars. I just grow tired of the crap I see.

[Devstrike]

Martin been meaning to ask you with Ford coming out with another gen of the V8 and Charger and Challenger looking like another gen of the ICE platform due to customer outrage. Do you think the 6th gen might get extended a year or two longer for GM to try get some slices of that market still?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Martin been meaning to ask you with Ford coming out with another gen of the V8 and Charger and Challenger looking like another gen of the ICE platform due to customer outrage. Do you think the 6th gen might get extended a year or two longer for GM to try get some slices of that market still?

I’m guessing you mean Ford coming out with another generation of Mustang. As far as I can tell, there will be no new generation of V8. They may keep the Coyote going for a few more years. Depends on F150 as well as where they are for Car CAFE. But they are very unlikely to invest in a new generation V8.

As for GM extending Camaro, I seriously doubt it. Camaro is as much a casualty of plans for the Lansing Grand River plant than anything else. LGR builds CT4, CT5, and Camaro. Cadillac is pledged to go 100% EV by 2030. CT4/CT5 are likely in the 2025-26 timing to convert to EV. Expect Escalade to be the very last to flip. When the ICE CT4/5 go, Camaro goes. Then the plant gets reconfigured for EV production.

[Devstrike]

Yeah sorry thats what I meant new gen of Mustang with V8. You answered my question though thanks.

[ckt227]

Originally Posted by Slippy

What is the connection between federal programs like NASA and the military and a state with an independent power grid?

Not looking for a dispute. The point was that the technology exists from Government/Privately owned business/military etc. can operate in space but cannot keep a grid on. And you cannot deny the government is not involved with power companies and their revenue.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

ICE vehicles will be around for several more decades at least. I expect I’ll be looking up at the lawn or in a tastefully decorated urn long before the last ICE vehicles are built.

Right now we are forecasting EV to be just over 30% of new vehicle sales in around 2030. That means 70% will still be ICE. We’ll be in the 2040s or 50s when it hits 50/50. Now, on the flip side, even though there will be plenty of ICE vehicles available, Camaro won’t be one of them.

I'm curious what will be the last ICE vehicles built. Looking at GM, other than the vette, it's doesn't seem like there will be vehicles for performance minded driving enthusiasts.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

I'm curious what will be the last ICE vehicles built. Looking at GM, other than the vette, it's doesn't seem like there will be vehicles for performance minded driving enthusiasts.

I can see GM continuing to build ICE commercial vehicles for a good amount of time beyond their self-imposed target of 100% zero emissions passenger vehicles by 2035. Toyota will likely continue to push hybrid vehicles in any markets where they can still meet regulations. Beyond that it’s hard to say who’s gonna hang on to ICE ad infinitum.

[Camby]

Omg this thread is so full of bs lol

[Devstrike]

I want to say GM Pick up trucks probably hang on to ICE for a few decades especially the 2500 and bigger trucks as Martin said above.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Hops

I'm curious what will be the last ICE vehicles built. Looking at GM, other than the vette, it's doesn't seem like there will be vehicles for performance minded driving enthusiasts.

For GM it is the Camaro and CT4/CT5 Blackwings. Corvette should really be its own brand by now with it own service centers. My biggest gripe is paying $160k+ for a Corvette Z06 and you have to bring it to the same dealership and service techs that work on a Chevy Spark.

It is nice to see some of the other brands catering to enthusiasts. Nissan Z, Supra, GR86/BRZ, hell they even brought back the Acura Integra, all available with a manual transmission, even the BMW Supra for 2023.

If the company is run by bean counters than they have no interest in catering to the $40-$60k enthusiast market that has low volume sales. GM will eventually offer an EV coupe or sedan at some point but who will really care? Is there really a whole new market out there for an EV sedan from Chevy? You can go buy a Tesla right now if that is what you want.

[cooldawg]

The dealers I’m in contact with imply GM is very eager to kill the Camaro. Since we’re discussing a sold order/ potential allocation vs. inventory, not much reason to bend the truth… Sad.

If Dodge sticks with 500hp or so ICE especially in a smaller platform, that’s where I’m headed. My HC challenger was fun and a great looking car- but BIG. That was really my only complaint.

If they’re going to call it quits after a short run for 23’, GM’s EV sedan will hopefully be a Chevelle or Malibu- and they’ll let Camaro die.