[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Edward Paul

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...gster-wheelie/
Going fast silent is a plus. I wonder how many runs it can go without needing more than tires?

I am curious to see how many enthusiasts fully embrace the silence of performance EVs. I owned a Tesla Model 3 Performance for a couple years, which is faster to 60mph than my ZL1 but I found it a lot less fun to drive. I don't think many folks will fully understand how much of cars personality and driving engagement comes from the vibration, gearing, engine and exhaust noise until you eliminate it. If you are the type of person who would like to remove as many of those characteristic as possible then you will love an EV. They are heavy but quiet, smooth, quick and efficient. They make for great daily drivers. However, if you prefer a car that has more character/soul and can tickle all the senses than I think you grow bored of EVs pretty quick, regardless of how fast they accelerate.

Furthermore, these EVs traction and stability control systems feel weird compared to current performance ICE vehicles. For example, you can't spin the tires in a Tesla (at least without hacking the system and voiding warranty) and even if they let you it is strange because they use open differentials and lots of software tuning to control the front and rear motors. It just doesn't feel natural. You also have to learn how to balance the car with regen braking, which is cool for a daily driver but kind of awkward for spirited driving. I am using Tesla here as my only EV reference point but I am hopeful the engineers at GM can build an EV performance coupe that has some character to it and is still fun to drive. I am looking for more than quick acceleration since EV minivans will be able to accelerate to 60mph in 3 seconds in the future. No one will care about quick acceleration after a while as it will be the norm. Drive modes, dynamic handling characteristics, sporty interiors with seats that hold you in place, aggressive styling, relaxed nanny controls come to mind.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I am curious to see how many enthusiasts fully embrace the silence of performance EVs. I owned a Tesla Model 3 Performance for a couple years, which is faster to 60mph than my ZL1 but I found it a lot less fun to drive. I don't think many folks will fully understand how much of cars personality and driving engagement comes from the vibration, gearing, engine and exhaust noise until you eliminate it. If you are the type of person who would like to remove as many of those characteristic as possible then you will love an EV. They are heavy but quiet, smooth, quick and efficient. They make for great daily drivers. However, if you prefer a car that has more character/soul and can tickle all the senses than I think you grow bored of EVs pretty quick, regardless of how fast they accelerate.

Furthermore, these EVs traction and stability control systems feel weird compared to current performance ICE vehicles. For example, you can't spin the tires in a Tesla (at least without hacking the system and voiding warranty) and even if they let you it is strange because they use open differentials and lots of software tuning to control the front and rear motors. It just doesn't feel natural. You also have to learn how to balance the car with regen braking, which is cool for a daily driver but kind of awkward for spirited driving. I am using Tesla here as my only EV reference point but I am hopeful the engineers at GM can build an EV performance coupe that has some character to it and is still fun to drive. I am looking for more than quick acceleration since EV minivans will be able to accelerate to 60mph in 3 seconds in the future. No one will care about quick acceleration after a while as it will be the norm. Drive modes, dynamic handling characteristics, sporty interiors with seats that hold you in place, aggressive styling, relaxed nanny controls come to mind.

Probably have to have track mode disable regen braking. Though that would probably result in a lower EPA range rating.

Why Tesla got rid of low regen setting was so they could raise the range rating.

[Need4Camaro]

I really hate this new world. I wish I could go to sleep and wake up in 2016 again.

I swear I will break down in tears if I go into a dealership and see that government mandated bloat of lithium hardware labeled as a Camaro. These cars were passion and dream I sought after from High School into my working career... it will destroy me.

I'd rather them just kill the Camaro and build an electric Malibu with a big smiley face as the front fascia or something loony like that. Just don't ruin the Camaro.

[Jofu]

Has anyone here had a chance to drive Porsche’s EV offering? Wondering if they’ve been able to retain some of that driver’s car feeling, given that it’s more in their DNA than, say, Tesla.

Geoff

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Probably have to have track mode disable regen braking. Though that would probably result in a lower EPA range rating.

Why Tesla got rid of low regen setting was so they could raise the range rating.

Track Mode actually increases the level of regen braking. You have some control over the level but usually you Keep it at max level since you need it to help you save the brakes. These cars are heavy and come with street pads. You also have to learn to use it with the friction brakes, which takes a little getting used to.

Also, getting into Track mode in a Tesla Model 3 requires you to put it in Park, press the brake while pressing the track mode button. Then the system will make an annoying continuous high pitched sound to help cool the battery system. It is not a mode you would really use on the street for spirited driving. It really is best reserved for the actual track. This is where I hope GM does a better job tuning the EV driving characteristics. They need to carry over the drive mode somehow with relaxed nannies if you plan to have any fun in a performance EV. I think the challenge is trying to find the right balance so folks don’t wrap themselves around a tree with all that instant torque.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by NYJets12

Whoever in the government that’s pushing electric cars is doing it backwards. They need to fix the power grid first. They’re doing rolling blackouts because everybody is running air conditioners. How can they handle electric cars they can’t handle something as simple as AC.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Yes, somebody oughta be working on that. https://www.energy.gov/articles/bide...americas-power

https://news.yahoo.com/10-3-billion-...100131044.html

[ckt227]

Originally Posted by NYJets12

Whoever in the government that’s pushing electric cars is doing it backwards. They need to fix the power grid first. They’re doing rolling blackouts because everybody is running air conditioners. How can they handle electric cars they can’t handle something as simple as AC.

That's for sure. The government can fly a drone and operate a rover on Mars. But could not figure out how to keep the power on in Texas a few years ago in the winter.

Now every hipster doofus with a man bun is going to keep their Tesla or Prius plugged in.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Jofu

Has anyone here had a chance to drive Porsche’s EV offering? Wondering if they’ve been able to retain some of that driver’s car feeling, given that it’s more in their DNA than, say, Tesla.

Geoff

I personally haven’t but I did talk to someone who has driven one on track and they said the Porsche Taycan experience was encouraging and offered some hope that performance EVs can still be fun to drive.

The two advantages of EVs on track is that you can actually hear what the tires are doing which can help communicate your level of grip. The other advantage is the torque as you exit corners.

Other than that I think maintaining a sporty interior, lower seating position, quick steering rack, drive modes, HUD, etc. will all help. The other topic is gearing in an EV. Porsche uses a 2 speed to help maintain performance at higher speeds. Tesla Model S Plaid figured out how to maintain performance without the need for a transmission but you are talking $150k with 3 motors. At the $50-$70k price point this will be more challenging. My Tesla Model 3 Performance was about .5 second quicker to 60mph than my ZL1 but the Model 3 crosses the 1/4 mile at 11.5 at 115mph vs. 11.3-11.5 at 124mph for the ZL1. 0-60 and 30-60 pulls are fantastic in the Model 3 but ZL1 pulls away like it is standing still on the highway. Again the Plaid addresses this and Porsche uses a 2 speed ZF transmission. It will be interesting to see what GM does.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by ckt227

That's for sure. The government can fly a drone and operate a rover on Mars. But could not figure out how to keep the power on in Texas a few years ago in the winter.

Now every hipster doofus with a man bun is going to keep their Tesla or Prius plugged in.

What is the connection between federal programs like NASA and the military and a state with an independent power grid?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by ckt227

That's for sure. The government can fly a drone and operate a rover on Mars. But could not figure out how to keep the power on in Texas a few years ago in the winter.

Now every hipster doofus with a man bun is going to keep their Tesla or Prius plugged in.

And hopefully those people will be smart and realize it will be cheaper when they charge the car overnight.

I have my Model 3 set to charge at 2 am.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Track Mode actually increases the level of regen braking. You have some control over the level but usually you Keep it at max level since you need it to help you save the brakes. These cars are heavy and come with street pads. You also have to learn to use it with the friction brakes, which takes a little getting used to.

Also, getting into Track mode in a Tesla Model 3 requires you to put it in Park, press the brake while pressing the track mode button. Then the system will make an annoying continuous high pitched sound to help cool the battery system. It is not a mode you would really use on the street for spirited driving. It really is best reserved for the actual track. This is where I hope GM does a better job tuning the EV driving characteristics. They need to carry over the drive mode somehow with relaxed nannies if you plan to have any fun in a performance EV. I think the challenge is trying to find the right balance so folks don’t wrap themselves around a tree with all that instant torque.

I was talking more about how a manufacture would tune a sports car EV for track driving and dealing your issue of regen potentially upsetting the vehicle. Have the track mode reduce/eliminate regen braking.

Not referencing track mode for the Model 3.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I really hate this new world. I wish I could go to sleep and wake up in 2016 again.

I swear I will break down in tears if I go into a dealership and see that government mandated bloat of lithium hardware labeled as a Camaro. These cars were passion and dream I sought after from High School into my working career... it will destroy me.

I'd rather them just kill the Camaro and build an electric Malibu with a big smiley face as the front fascia or something loony like that. Just don't ruin the Camaro.

Weird I think the government was controlled by republicans when GM/Ford made these commitments to transition to EV’s…..

So people really need to stop with pushing this false narrative that it’s todays government forcing EV’s on them.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by Slippy

What is the connection between federal programs like NASA and the military and a state with an independent power grid?

QAnon logic

[Heathbuck]

One day I hope there will be a dual motor, all wheel drive, 3500 pound, two door, 500 horsepower, 10% - 90% charging in 5 minutes EV Camaro. Until then I will enjoy my LT1!