[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I absolutely think Tesla should be the baseline. Tesla is enjoying first mover advantage but now all the competition is coming. I think the traditional manufacturers will have actually have better build quality and nicer interiors than Tesla but they have some catching up to do as it relates to the powertrain, software control systems and OTA updates. Tesla batteries and motors are more efficient and more powerful than the 1st gen stuff we will see from the traditional players. Learning how to control dual motor setups and have them feel natural will take some time. Control systems, software update, etc. all require a new set of skills. GM is now hiring software developers that are required to manage the software updates and monetize the software features.

You have to think of EVs as a platform now, much like our smart phones, cable services, gaming systems. You buy this hardware platform which will be enabled with new features as you own the vehicle. Performance boosts, ability to add new apps, etc. My Tesla UI and features have change quite a bit since I first bought it in 2019. When I first got it there was no "brake hold" so you could only use the reg braking until about 5-10mph and then you had to apply the friction brakes. Then you get an update and bam, you can enable brake hold. Initially, the car only used the backup camera for reverse, then they said why not add the two side cameras on the fenders as well for more camera angles. So, the OTA updates are not just fart noises and games but they can keep tweaking the UI and improve the driving experience. In the first year of ownership the car received two performance boost updates, adding about 30-40hp on my Model 3 Performance. It knocked about 2 tenths off the 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times.

We are talking apples and oranges. You are focused on features that Tesla has been refining for some time for an extremely affluent market. I am talking about the basic issues faced by EV usage, which aren't much of a concern to people who can afford a Tesla.

Personally, your description of using the regen feature is going to worry me whenever I see a Tesla behind me in city traffic. I prefer people focus on one method of slowing the vehicle, tends to reduce confusion.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

We are talking apples and oranges. You are focused on features that Tesla has been refining for some time for an extremely affluent market. I am talking about the basic issues faced by EV usage, which aren't much of a concern to people who can afford a Tesla.

Personally, your description of using the regen feature is going to worry me whenever I see a Tesla behind me in city traffic. I prefer people focus on one method of slowing the vehicle, tends to reduce confusion.

It worries me to think about that in front of me. Does regen braking activate the brake lights?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

It worries me to think about that in front of me. Does regen braking activate the brake lights?

Yes they do turn on.

Originally Posted by Alan47717

Personally, your description of using the regen feature is going to worry me whenever I see a Tesla behind me in city traffic. I prefer people focus on one method of slowing the vehicle, tends to reduce confusion.

He was talking about how it used to work. Now you don't. You don't have to touch the brake pedal to bring the car to a stop. Tesla developed hold mode so it will automatically apply the friction brakes to hold the vehicle stopped. And all Tesla's got this through a software update even older models before this feature was developed unlike with legacy automakers.

I STRONGLY recommend a test drive of a Model 3 just for you to get clarity of how this works.

[Soon2be 21SS]

Originally Posted by 2k2ss

No! The sound and feel/ vibration of the v8 gives it a soul.
I don’t want to drive a microwave

Now that was funny. I agree I do not want to drive a microwave either!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

You have to think of EVs as a platform now, much like our smart phones, cable services, gaming systems. You buy this hardware platform which will be enabled with new features as you own the vehicle. Performance boosts, ability to add new apps, etc. My Tesla UI and features have change quite a bit since I first bought it in 2019. When I first got it there was no "brake hold" so you could only use the reg braking until about 5-10mph and then you had to apply the friction brakes. Then you get an update and bam, you can enable brake hold. Initially, the car only used the backup camera for reverse, then they said why not add the two side cameras on the fenders as well for more camera angles. So, the OTA updates are not just fart noises and games but they can keep tweaking the UI and improve the driving experience. In the first year of ownership the car received two performance boost updates, adding about 30-40hp on my Model 3 Performance. It knocked about 2 tenths off the 0-60mph and 1/4 mile times.

Everyone and their little pony releases "platforms" these days, that's the new buzzword that no longer means much, because platforms now change as frequently as simple applications did back when "platform" meant an OS that lasted 20-25 years at least.

Unfortunately, the only reason you are enjoying this pleasant update/feature generosity is that EVs (and Tesla in particular) are still in the market making stage. Once they take a stronger foothold, which is about now or very soon, I think we'll start seeing the exact same trajectory that cell phones have followed—locked down app stores, in-app ("in-car") purchases or "subscriptions" that will be used to make you pay extra for features (heated steering wheel, cooled seats, heck, they could charge for seat memory or even allowing you to crank your A/C down below 70 degrees, the sky is the limit).

You'll have frequent, but generally meaningless updates that no longer give you much of value, but by then the software will have become a prime vehicle (sorry ) for monitoring ("telemetry"), continuous data, preference and even biometry acquisition (think always on eye tracking), access control and all-encompassing remote control etc., with no way to opt out.

Case in point? My cell phone started its life with Android 9 (I think), now it's on Android 12, and I keep everything up to date on it just to be on the safe side (read: nobody really cares, but I keep up just to minimize the chances of sucking in an exploit). The number of useful enhancements that actually add to my user experience has been 0—stuff changes, icons and fonts are redesigned, settings are moved around and maybe one or two arcane new feature got added—but I've yet to receive a single update that would've improved meaningful things like battery life or application performance.

Truth to be told, though, these phone updates have remained free, so I'm not complaining, it's just that in general the nature of this "evolution" is not as rosy as one might predict based on its early stages.

Finally, the ease of update deployment with software vs hardware has the unfortunate side effect of even higher delivery pressure and quality degradation, since fixing something like an oil pump or misbehaving transmission fluid after the fact is super expensive, but no comparable foresight and care needs to be taken with software. As long as the issues aren't life threatening (read: the company doesn't get sued much), manufacturers will gradually hire more and more minimally qualified coders and focus less on proper design, because errors that creep in are easy to fix via an OTA update.

Software is indeed eating the world. Now y'all young whippersnappers, get off my lawn, will ya

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Everyone and their little pony releases "platforms" these days, that's the new buzzword that no longer means much, because platforms now change as frequently as simple applications did back when "platform" meant an OS that lasted 20-25 years at least.

Unfortunately, the only reason you are enjoying this pleasant update/feature generosity is that EVs (and Tesla in particular) are still in the market making stage. Once they take a stronger foothold, which is about now or very soon, I think we'll start seeing the exact same trajectory that cell phones have followed—locked down app stores, in-app ("in-car") purchases or "subscriptions" that will be used to make you pay extra for features (heated steering wheel, cooled seats, heck, they could charge for seat memory or even allowing you to crank your A/C down below 70 degrees, the sky is the limit).

You'll have frequent, but generally meaningless updates that no longer give you much of value, but by then the software will have become a prime vehicle (sorry ) for monitoring ("telemetry"), continuous data, preference and even biometry acquisition (think always on eye tracking), access control and all-encompassing remote control etc., with no way to opt out.

Case in point? My cell phone started its life with Android 9 (I think), now it's on Android 12, and I keep everything up to date on it just to be on the safe side (read: nobody really cares, but I keep up just to minimize the chances of sucking in an exploit). The number of useful enhancements that actually add to my user experience has been 0—stuff changes, icons and fonts are redesigned, settings are moved around and maybe one or two arcane new feature got added—but I've yet to receive a single update that would've improved meaningful things like battery life or application performance.

Truth to be told, though, these phone updates have remained free, so I'm not complaining, it's just that in general the nature of this "evolution" is not as rosy as one might predict based on its early stages.

Finally, the ease of update deployment with software vs hardware has the unfortunate side effect of even higher delivery pressure and quality degradation, since fixing something like an oil pump or misbehaving transmission fluid after the fact is super expensive, but no comparable foresight and care needs to be taken with software. As long as the issues aren't life threatening (read: the company doesn't get sued much), manufacturers will gradually hire more and more minimally qualified coders and focus less on proper design, because errors that creep in are easy to fix via an OTA update.

Software is indeed eating the world. Now y'all young whippersnappers, get off my lawn, will ya

I don't disagree, but it appears this is the future of the auto industry. So, if you have to pick, which one do you choose? It looks like GM is focused on Ultium and Ultifi. They all want an extensible platform that they can use to monetize features as well.

I will say this, one visit to the Corvette forum and all I see are posts about failed software updates, my battery went dead, etc. And this is simple infotainment update stuff. Wait until the updates push updates to battery control systems, etc. I sure hope GM is hiring some really good cloud developers and has implemented the proper test procedures so that they don't accidentally take out an entire fleet of EVs with a botched OTA software update.

I was initially worried about how well Tesla would handle software updates but so far so good after 3 years and 25-30 updates so far. I get an update about once a month or so. Some updates are met with controversy in the forums especially when they modify the UI. Folks will scream, where did the setting for my heated seats go? And then an update later they will give you the option to put the heated seat button wherever you want. Stuff like that.

https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail....29-ultifi.html

https://www.gm.com/ultium

[PMCamaro]

Answer to tread title in two words ———— NO. I had one 20 years ago. I think it was a Club Car

[Hops]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I was initially worried about how well Tesla would handle software updates but so far so good after 3 years and 25-30 updates so far. I get an update about once a month or so. Some updates are met with controversy in the forums especially when they modify the UI. Folks will scream, where did the setting for my heated seats go? And then an update later they will give you the option to put the heated seat button wherever you want. Stuff like that.

The battery throttling updates tesla did to the model s to avoid warranty claims is the other side of OTA updates.

[TexasRed5.9]

Originally Posted by PMCamaro

Answer to tread title in two words ———— NO. I had one 20 years ago. I think it was a Club Car

That seriously made me laugh out loud.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, sedans aren’t selling well so it’s likely an SUV and GM will likely be announcing the Equinox EV that fits your price and range. Bolt and Bolt EUV are 262 miles I believe and under 30k now.

The Bolt had to reduce its MSRP because it’s having a difficult time remaining competitive in the EV market due to its charging hardware being inadequate. There are countless Bolts for sell on the market but it’s almost impossible to get your hands on a Tesla, Ioniq 5 or EV6. The Bolt literally takes the longest to charge out of all the EV’s on the market seconded only to the Mini Cooper EV. That plus I stated 300+ miles meaning 300 miles is a hard minimum, and I prefer to see much more (preferably in the 400 ballpark, but would be willing to accept something in the 300 - 350 mile range for $30k, and if you say that’s asking alot… consider that my Prius is able to get more range than a Tesla 3 Long Range edition gets and costs less than half the price and it becomes evidently clear that per dollar value EV’s are currently far less functional on practicality level than ICE vehicles. Also consider that on the highway my SS is able to achieve nearly 500 miles to a tank of fuel… a performance vehicle … I only have to stop for gas twice on a road trip I regularly take between Austin TX and Atlanta GA (and yes I do this drive without stopping for rest ordinarily). That’s more range than most EV’s save for the vehicles costing over $80k are able to achieve.

[Silveradoss573]

Originally Posted by len125

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/news...will-they-come

You couldn't give me one but that goes for pretty much any gm product for the foreseeable future.

[s346k]

in reply to the thread title. no.

now onto my opinion. the best camaro ever built (6g) couldn't sell. what makes gm think anyone will want a 4 door version that will most likely cost more and offer less?

let the camaro name die an honorable death. i've owned several camaros. this is simply embarrassing. give it a different name and please revamp the front clip.

[raptor5244]

Check this this thing out.

https://www.cadillac.com/show-car/celestiq

[redcoats1976]

nice,but does it come with two fewer doors?i like my wifes civic 2 door better than that...considering it gets about 35 in town and 40 on the highway payoff on an electric caddy would be long after im dead.