[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Chrome383Z

Xpipe doesn’t do anything on a stock or bolt on car. The only instance where you could see 10hp or so is on a high power FI car with an automatic as the AFM valve does neck down a little.

My 19 A10 pulled 423 on a mustang dyno with an A10 stock. Did have a rotofab but unless tuned you don’t get much from it. So yes you could have hit 420 depending on dyno. They are a tuning tool without a baseline it’s all speculation and guessing. Some are happy, some are not. It’s the delta you need to watch.

423 on a mustang dyno is hard to believe. I've never seen a dyno where these cars pulled much over 390 on a heartbreaker. And most of them pulled 360-380. On a dynojet these cars are around 390-400 and rarely above 400. And I mean stupid rare to find one 410+ on a dynojet.

Last time I checked our cars are direct injected. Direct Injection is more efficient so I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here?

Like I told ALMN before, numbers don't lie. But every point you and him have made is speculation without proof.

There are many sites that agree with me and I have seen testing done on some of them to verify the results.

Like I said, there's no way you can explain an 85hp gain at the crank with the mods I have. if the x-pipe does nothing. Much less a 3" x-pipe vs a dual 2.75" independent exhaust.

And the statistical probability I have a Unicorn at 420rwhp with all stock parts is very rare and HIGHLY unlikely.

Even more rare is you suggesting you pulled a 423 hp on a heartbreaker dyno with all stock parts.

Rotofab was tested against stock intake to produce no power, but did produce more torque. There's a reason I didn't go with Rotofab it wasn't just to save money.

[6spdhyperblue]

The only reason you gained is because the auto has the afm valves that go down to 2.5”. I agree 7rw is possible

The stock exhaust doesn’t have a xpipe?

Idk what degrees you must have to think that but to me this is not simple physics. What about the pressure waves and all that? I think you’d be surprised running a msd/103 and a lt2/95 back to back. A $2000 setup vs $350. The msd wins but certainly is the premo $ option

I think a larger throttle body helps offset a small plenum volume as well..

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

The only reason you gained is because the auto has the afm valves that go down to 2.5”. I agree 7rw is possible

The stock exhaust doesn’t have a xpipe?

Idk what degrees you must have to think that but to me this is not simple physics. What about the pressure waves and all that? I think you’d be surprised running a msd/103 and a lt2/95 back to back. A $2000 setup vs $350. The msd wins but certainly is the premo $ option

I think a larger throttle body helps offset a small plenum volume as well..

LT2 is not just $350, add about another $800+ And another $300+ for the 95mm TB to that for the rest of the kit. Head to head the LT2 can't keep up with the AAF intake manifold. Yes it is more money but you get better results in the end than the LT2 is capable of due to basic physics and bottlenecking.

Physics in terms of airflow and bottlenecking. Both you and ALMN are arguing that a 3" X-Pipe does nothing compared to the non x-pipe stock exhaust with a 2.75" diameter.

And just for more evidence: Here's a test ran on an X-Pipe vs H-Pipe and Stock exhaust on a Mustang GT. The X-Pipe produced a very measurable 7hp gain. Which again fits in line with what I said, on average 7-12 hp gain with an X-Pipe. Yes it is noted the resonators were removed as ALMN already said removing restrictions. But don't tell people the X-Pipe does nothing, because in most cases people who put them on are removing restrictions with a purpose. The one thing this video never states is rather or not the vehicle is tuned afterwards. So are my numbers really that far off, or a lot more realistic than saying X-Pipe does nothing or I have a Unicorn that produced 420rwhp with all stock parts and all the stock restrictions?

4:53 mark are the results.

[6spdhyperblue]

I’ve been running xpipes on pontiacs since 2003. I know what they do.
I am wondering why you think the stock exhaust doesn’t have a X pipe.

My LT2s were $350 with the throttle bodies. If you can’t mod them yourself they are $550.
I did my own track testing of my personal msd, along with a pray ported lt1, and my lt2
I have a decent idea of what they offer.

[Chrome383Z]

Forgot I had a ported throttle body (87mm). But your not getting 20+rwhp from a rotofab and TB. This dyno IMO is probably happy or the car is damn strong who knows. It ran well. That’s all I’m saying, without a baseline you don’t have a clue what was gained. And the xpipe isn’t a place to look for HP IMO. Any gains can be had by cutting the AFM valves out for $50 an an automatic car. Manual you probably would not see any at bolt on level.

Now I bet the answer would be different for the 800rwhp guys, idk I’m not there yet. lol

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Chrome383Z

Forgot I had a ported throttle body (87mm). But your not getting 20+rwhp from a rotofab and TB. This dyno IMO is probably happy or the car is damn strong who knows. It ran well. That’s all I’m saying, without a baseline you don’t have a clue what was gained. And the xpipe isn’t a place to look for HP IMO. Any gains can be had by cutting the AFM valves out for $50 an an automatic car. Manual you probably would not see any at bolt on level.

Now I bet the answer would be different for the 800rwhp guys, idk I’m not there yet. lol

As I said,

Numbers don't lie. The math checks out. What doesn't check out is you and ALMN saying an X-Pipe doesn't do anything.

And as I explained already the statistical probability that I have a unicorn is rare and even more rare is your 423hp on a heartbreaker dyno.

Maybe it was a good day, absolutely, maybe the car is happy, maybe the dyno/tech lied and inflated the numbers. All of that is possible and way more common than what you have suggested.

I also NEVER said an X-Pipe was the way to get power. I said, and you can quote me here, "Allowing the engine to breath is what produces horsepower. An X-Pipe does just that along with the rest of my upgrades." But telling people an x-pipe does nothing is factually wrong, and there is way to much supporting evidence for it to be argued any further.

https://www.gmpartscenter.net/v-2020...ust-components



These cars do not come with a stock x-pipe.

[6spdhyperblue]

They do tho. Take a look under your car right about there

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I’ve been running xpipes on pontiacs since 2003. I know what they do.
I am wondering why you think the stock exhaust doesn’t have a X pipe.

My LT2s were $350 with the throttle bodies. If you can’t mod them yourself they are $550.
I did my own track testing of my personal msd, along with a pray ported lt1, and my lt2
I have a decent idea of what they offer.

Yes the LT2 intake itself, but not when you start adding everything else you need.

https://gwatneyperformance.com/produ...old-126977114/

$258 at GPI now add in everything else and its not $258 anymore. Then add another $500-$700 for a tune.



Granted it is still cheaper than the AAF + 103mm TB, but if you are going to blow that kind of money and you expect the best possible gains, you don't get the LT2.

Our cars can match a Charger SRT Hellcat on the track with both cars on drags with just FBO and 103mm TB with no bottlenecking. Granted Driver mod dependent of course as well.

Like I said I've done a TON of research before I ever did my mods, I've watched countless videos on youtube regarding mods, and drag races. I may be new to the whole car thing and not mechanically inclined, but I do my research before I commit to things.

[6spdhyperblue]

I get what you’re saying with the msd. Plus if u cam you’re all set. I’ve also found stock rev limit(m6) for the LT2 is all you need, it is really optimizing and raising the average power of that rev range. I haven’t noticed a need to take it higher. Imo if you don’t need to spin it higher, don’t. My msd was shifting 6800, seeing 7k on the log, I liked shifting with that manifold there.

If you have a grinder, again, it doesn’t cost that. Go to rock auto and price them out, then a harness extension

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

They do tho. Take a look under your car right about there

They come with dual independent exhaust pipes from what I have researched?

There is no crossover in the center like H/X/Y Pipes from what I've seen, is that not correct?

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I get what you’re saying with the msd. Plus if u cam you’re all set.

If you have a grinder, again, it doesn’t cost that. Go to rock auto and price them out, then a harness extension

lol, fair enough, which is why I haven't done the intake manifold yet, I believe I need to learn more about them, before I commit to it.

Also why I'm so hesitant about the LT2 as well. I think of the LT2 more of a mechanics intake, someone that knows what they are doing to install them etc.
AAF is basically inclusive of everything you will need.

[6spdhyperblue]

Yes - there are deals on lt2 that come up here for around $500. That is still worth it imo.

A decked out unit from GPI, as you said, is a hard sell.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

They do tho. Take a look under your car right about there

Ya there is no crossover there.

They are independent pipes one for the right side bank and one for the left side bank

There is no pulse balancing with that exhaust setup. Which is exactly what an X-Pipe does, pulse balancing and venturi effect to pull more exhaust out of the cylinders.

[6spdhyperblue]

There is an xpipe. They are not independent. I don’t know what else to tell ya.

There are plenty of pictures if you search here if you don’t believe us. Maybe oldman had a post on it