[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by red6.2

sorry to say this, but these are the new car prices. I'm talking about the price gouging along with the car. If your lucky, you might get 1k off their markup, but the car manufacturing business is screwed for another 2 years. 6gen Camaro has just a year for production otherwise. Remember 2020, well we are now in 2022 and we have all witness this inflation. Ive talked to many people who have lived through decades with inflation and they told me this. Its the new, new! go to Burger King and an order a meal, see how much they are charging now. If you really want a camaro I suggest picking one up when you see and at least put in the effort looking for one.

Agreed, after inflation spikes the prices never actually go back to prior levels. They may retreat some but never all the way back. These become the new prices. We printed money like crazy, devalued the dollar and now we need more dollars to buy the same damn thing.

[fielderLS3]

Market can work both ways. Current one only really sucks if you are adding a car.

In 2017, I looked at a base 1ss with the dual mode exhaust the only option. Dealer wanted 21k plus my Mustang as trade, which I declined. Today, I could probably trade the same now 5 year older car on a 1LE for only slightly more of a balance. Trade in values have gone up much more than sticker prices as long as you don't pay over sticker.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Agreed, after inflation spikes the prices never actually go back to prior levels. They may retreat some but never all the way back. These become the new prices. We printed money like crazy, devalued the dollar and now we need more dollars to buy the same damn thing.

Exactly. Cars aren't getting more expensive, dollars are just worth less. Sticker prices are actually not keeping up with the official 7.5% inflation rate....yet. I originally planned to wait until 2024 to get a last year Camaro. I moved up that up to beat the even bigger increases that may be coming.

Once the supply chain issue shakes out, the sticker prices won't go back down....but trade in values probably will once supply normalized.

[armycop71]

There are still some good dealers who are surviving without ridiculous markups, we should be supporting those and avoiding the ones that are ripping people off. The only reason they can keep this up is because people are paying it. I agree the market won't go back to massive discounts on cars on the lot, but if people keep avoiding the greedy dealers, they will eventually have to adjust back to normal.

[flobb]

Originally Posted by armycop71

There are still some good dealers who are surviving without ridiculous markups, we should be supporting those and avoiding the ones that are ripping people off. The only reason they can keep this up is because people are paying it. I agree the market won't go back to massive discounts on cars on the lot, but if people keep avoiding the greedy dealers, they will eventually have to adjust back to normal.

Yep, I drove 200 miles to get a 2SS from one of those good guys. They had just received the car a day or two before I happened to contact them. It had 3 miles on it. They accepted supplier pricing without hesitating, and NEVER charge doc fees. They're mostly a truck dealer in rural Missouri.

[SHessler]

I'm willing to pay MSRP, I will not pay a markup. There's (or was when I last checked) a C8 Z51 sitting at the dealership 2 miles away from me that is built just like the one I wanted to order, but they've put and additional $25K markup on it. I won't be buying it and I won't be buying anything from that dealer. Ever.

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

A few of the dealers in my area sell at MSRP but they are the dealers that are larger and do more volume and also banking on repeat business when this chaos settles down. I see some of the smaller dealers already packing it in a selling off to the larger dealers.

I do find it interesting that people want the market to dictate prices unless the prices affect them.

I was prepared to pay MSRP (plus the stupid tint/nitrogen dealer markup) when I placed my order. The reason I was ok was because I know that as time goes on, it's going to be that much harder to find a manual transmission and I knew that I might miss my chance at buying a thoroughly engaging driver's car. My original option was a CT5-V Blackwing, but there was no way I was going to pay what I considered to be a "mark-up" over a Camaro ZL1. I could've complained that the markup was greedy, but I'm perfectly ok with my Camaro ZL1 despite the fact that the CT5-V has more utility. I have to be honest, I'm surprised so many people are opposed to a pure capitalist system.

[raptor5244]

So a local Toyota dealer in Miami just sold a pair of new Toyota Tundras for $21,200 over MSRP for each. they both had $10,000 non-refundable deposits. At least those Toyota’s tend to last a long time because they are going to need it.

[GOC]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

Opportunity is a component of Capitalism isn't it? I still think that a dealer should be able to mark up the price to whatever they want. But as consumers, we should also have the right to remember when these dealerships marked up their cars. If enough people felt the same way, then the dealership would go under once supply returned to normal.

You might be misunderstand how this works.

The issue Chevy is taking with dealers stems from MSP or market selling price. They are selling above suggested retail on new vehicles - they don’t want them doing that.

Used cars don’t have MSP - they have average market selling price. Which varies by demand amongst other things. You can buy or sell for whatever you like if it works.

Nobody’s trying to undermine capitalism or enter a political debate. I just don’t and won’t pay more then retail for what I buy. So I didn’t and suggest others do the same.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by SHessler

I'm willing to pay MSRP, I will not pay a markup. There's (or was when I last checked) a C8 Z51 sitting at the dealership 2 miles away from me that is built just like the one I wanted to order, but they've put and additional $25 markup on it. I won't be buying it and I won't be buying anything from that dealer. Ever.

Is $25 a typo? For $25 extra I'd go for it . . .

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by GOC

You might be misunderstand how this works.

The issue Chevy is taking with dealers stems from MSP or market selling price. They are selling above suggested retail on new vehicles - they don’t want them doing that.

Used cars don’t have MSP - they have average market selling price. Which varies by demand amongst other things. You can buy or sell for whatever you like if it works.

Nobody’s trying to undermine capitalism or enter a political debate. I just don’t and won’t pay more then retail for what I buy. So I didn’t and suggest others do the same.

Correct, GM doesn't like the dealerships marking up the prices but supply is in short demand, so the laws of supply and demand should technically apply.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

So these companies AREN'T making record profits? Where are you getting your information?

First off... What companies specifically are "these companies"? The article makes no mention of ANY companies. They use "mystery companies". Whether real or imagined, we do not know.


Now, let's dive into the article...

Did you even verify any of the facts that were in the "article" you linked?

Right off the bat in the bullet points:

The ability to charge more is making some employers more comfortable with paying higher wages.

And further in the article:

"The upshot for workers of some of these price increases is that higher sales makes employers more willing to raise wages and compensation."

Kinda the same thing I said.

Except it's the other way around. Business currently needs to outbid the federal government for workers (unemployment vs wages). Those wage increases are, in part, driving costs up.


Moving on:

https://digital.com/

This site is an "click farm". Doubt you could get any type of scientific poll outta these guys.

Methodology

All data found within this report was derived from a survey commissioned by Digital.com and conducted online by survey platform Pollfish. In total, 1,000 U.S. retail business owners and executives were surveyed. Appropriate respondents were found viaa screening question. To qualify for the survey, each respondent had to own a retail business or be an employed executive at a retail business. This survey was conducted on November 18, 2021. All respondents were asked to answer all questions truthfully and to the best of their abilities. For full survey results, please email julia@digital.com.

You answer ONE question on the internet and BOOM you're in. No actual verification. For all I know high school kids answered this poll.

Then we have:

"Gas supply companies are paying less and making a lot more, and they do not seem to be passing that on to the consumers at the pump," Biden said last week. "Instead, companies are pocketing the difference as profit. That's unacceptable."

The key words are underlined. Magicians do things that do not seem possible.

Oil in November 2021 (when the article was written) was $70-$80 a barrel.
Gasoline was around $3-$4 (depending on the state).
That is in line with historical prices.

Further, the Biden Administration investigated oil companies and came back with nothing. Why? It was all smoke and mirrors to throw the gullible some red meat.

If there WERE any actual price gouging, the Justice Department would have paraded heads thru the streets. N-O-T-H-I-N-G came out of the investigations. Nothing.

It was all a head fake to throw people of the real reason.

The Government is printing money it doesn't have out of thin air and causing inflation by having too many dollars chasing too few goods and services.

(And to be fair, the Trump Admin. was dishing out "free money" to people as well)


Disclaimer:

This is not a political rant, nor should it be taken as such. The ONLY reason political parties were mentioned was due to the article and an attempt to be balanced.

This post is about economics. Please keep it that way.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Last April I was haggling with a dealership over a new Ecoboost Mustang for one of my sons. I got them down to $24k and they wouldn’t budge. Something told me to take the deal, which I did. Within a couple of months prices were up in the $30k range. Probably the best car purchase decision I’ve ever made.

Flash forward a year and my wife wants a new Telluride EX AWD. MSRP is about $45k. Dealers are asking mid $50s Plus tax tag etc.

I had one dealer try to sell me a 2020 Telluride with 10k miles for $57k plus. Think about that….almost $60k for a USED KIA!

[FarmerFran]

The 4V blackwing i am looking at has no mark up.