[rocket403]

GM is walking away and they have no way of fixing the issues with the Camaro, unless they have a change of heart and do something soon. They gambled that they would sell more than they have, they invested a ton of money into the Camaro to sell 20k that wasn't in their business plan.
With the Brampton Plant just down the road from me they are making 250000 cars a year with the 300, Charger and Challenger they are keeping the Charger and Challenger in the public eye and making enough changes to keep buyers happy.

Now with the Direct Connection you can buy a Challenger, Charger and upgrade the HP right from the dealer and have a Warranty with Dodge covering any issues.

"the thought is, we know how to modify these cars, we’ve engineered them from the beginning,” said Kuniskis. “Let’s modify them for performance, certify them for emissions, and cover them under the warranty. The customer is going to do it anyway. They’re going to be okay with the warranty, and we don’t need any conflict with them if they have a problem, and lastly, they are safe from an emissions standpoint.”

"The fun begins with the Direct Connection Tuner, an OBD II engine tuner that lets customers download a variety of 50-state legal tunes straight from Dodge. These ECU tunes can be combined with a variety of the automaker’s new Stage Kits, which are pre-configured for Hellcat or Redeye models. The Pre-Stage Kit adds five horsepower to Hellcats and Redeyes by way of a recalibration, and gives Redeyes a new thermostat and air cleaner. The Stage 1 Kit for the Challenger Hellcat brings the 3.17-inch supercharger pulley from the Hellephant crate engine, which combines with a tune to raise output to 757 horsepower and 696 lb-ft of torque. The Redeye Stage 1 Kit brings new software as well, bumping output to 840 horsepower and 770 lb-ft in High Octane Mode."

Talking about going out with a bang! Maybe Ford will do something similar I can't see GM doing anything.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by rocket403

GM is walking away and they have no way of fixing the issues with the Camaro, unless they have a change of heart and do something soon. They gambled that they would sell more than they have, they invested a ton of money into the Camaro to sell 20k that wasn't in their business plan.
With the Brampton Plant just down the road from me they are making 250000 cars a year with the 300, Charger and Challenger they are keeping the Charger and Challenger in the public eye and making enough changes to keep buyers happy.

Now with the Direct Connection you can buy a Challenger, Charger and upgrade the HP right from the dealer and have a Warranty with Dodge covering any issues.

"the thought is, we know how to modify these cars, we’ve engineered them from the beginning,” said Kuniskis. “Let’s modify them for performance, certify them for emissions, and cover them under the warranty. The customer is going to do it anyway. They’re going to be okay with the warranty, and we don’t need any conflict with them if they have a problem, and lastly, they are safe from an emissions standpoint.”

"The fun begins with the Direct Connection Tuner, an OBD II engine tuner that lets customers download a variety of 50-state legal tunes straight from Dodge. These ECU tunes can be combined with a variety of the automaker’s new Stage Kits, which are pre-configured for Hellcat or Redeye models. The Pre-Stage Kit adds five horsepower to Hellcats and Redeyes by way of a recalibration, and gives Redeyes a new thermostat and air cleaner. The Stage 1 Kit for the Challenger Hellcat brings the 3.17-inch supercharger pulley from the Hellephant crate engine, which combines with a tune to raise output to 757 horsepower and 696 lb-ft of torque. The Redeye Stage 1 Kit brings new software as well, bumping output to 840 horsepower and 770 lb-ft in High Octane Mode."

Talking about going out with a bang! Maybe Ford will do something similar I can't see GM doing anything.

Now that is actually bad ass. Kudos to them for doing something like that.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Now that is actually bad ass. Kudos to them for doing something like that.

As a result, guess whose eMuscle cars will be met with more goodwill in the future.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

As a result, guess whose eMuscle cars will be met with more goodwill in the future.

Yeah dodge has done an excellent job at catering to its crowd. It's sad Chevy just kinda abandoned the Camaro. I guess they're satisfied with having only the Corvette as a sporty car.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And to your link, GM will gladly build you a COPO Camaro as well. So I don't see that as to why they are Number 1. Ford has a similar program I believe.

No, the copo and cobra jet are two completely different things. You cannot drive those cars legally on the street. I don’t believe they are emissions certified either. What Dodge is doing you can still drive the car on the street and smog your car even in California. It tailors to a much larger audience than the folks who can trailer their car to and from the drag strip. If this program existed when I bought my 6th gen I would have considered the scat pack more strongly as at this point in my life I like to stick with oem parts/reliability.

[TXCSSU]

I find it comical that the Challenger is in so many peoples' heads. I'm sure GM could open up the cabin, make it easier to look out, sure it'll make the car less structurally rigid and will compromise handling but who cares about handling these days?



Next, how about raising the ride height just a bit because you know sometimes it's hard to bend one's knees, what is this supposed to be some young man's car? PFT!



And while we're at it, let's go ahead and add some extra space inside for more than just my phone. I mean, yes I gotta have my phone in a good place so I can play the new mobile version Forza, I mean sure we have one of the more popular cars in Forza, but who wants to experience the real thing when you can experience it on your phone without wasting gas?










Let's see, I think I've formulated why everyone wants a Challenger and not a Camaro.... Let's take a look at what it might look like if GM wanted more Challenger like sales.....



















Congrats, you guys just successfully argued why SUVs are so popular and why true drivers' cars are on the endangered species list... Now don't forget to turn in your mancard as you exit the doors....

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

I find it comical that the Challenger is in so many peoples' heads. I'm sure GM could open up the cabin, make it easier to look out, sure it'll make the car less structurally rigid and will compromise handling but who cares about handling these days?



Next, how about raising the ride height just a bit because you know sometimes it's hard to bend one's knees, what is this supposed to be some young man's car? PFT!



And while we're at it, let's go ahead and add some extra space inside for more than just my phone. I mean, yes I gotta have my phone in a good place so I can play the new mobile version Forza, I mean sure we have one of the more popular cars in Forza, but who wants to experience the real thing when you can experience it on your phone without wasting gas?










Let's see, I think I've formulated why everyone wants a Challenger and not a Camaro.... Let's take a look at what it might look like if GM wanted more Challenger like sales.....



















Congrats, you guys just successfully argued why SUVs are so popular and why true drivers' cars are on the endangered species list... Now don't forget to turn in your mancard as you exit the doors....

All that and you drive a SS sedan get outta here. You're literally just driving a fat Camaro so how are you going to criticize the Challenger for being a bigger car.

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by Puddin

All that and you drive a SS sedan get outta here. You're literally just driving a fat Camaro so how are you going to criticize the Challenger for being a bigger car.

Hate to disappoint you, but the SS Sedan is being displaced because I want more of the driving experience that I mentioned above, also the SS Sedan is an auto, and I want a manual. So no I don't think I'll "get outta here". The SS Sedan also rated favorably when compared to the Challenger's 4-door brother because guess what, it was built on an earlier version today's Camaro platform.

And for the record, I'm not criticizing the Challenger for being a "bigger car". I'm pointing out that the Camaro has the driving characteristics that matter to ME.

If you need a larger trunk for groceries, or to store snacks so that you can be a good parent at the soccer tournament, so be it. My priorities for the Camaro are driving dynamics, not cup holder count, not shuttling people, not a number on a piece of paper that tells everyone how powerful my engine is. It's just driving dynamics, and the Camaro has it in spades.

Hell, even the Mustang makes a more compelling argument than the Challenger.. I'd argue that GM and Ford battling against each other for so long has sharpened their product line. Dodge, err, Fiat err I mean Stellantis hasn't been in the trenches fighting for the niche market that Ford and GM have, and I think that's why they decided to bring a blunt instrument into the fray. "What driving dynamics? Just throw a big engine in it and call it a day, the American psyche is fragile enough to buy into it!" And guess what, they were right for the most part.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

And for the record, I'm not criticizing the Challenger for being a "bigger car". I'm pointing out that the Camaro has the driving characteristics that matter to ME.

If you need a larger trunk for groceries, or to store snacks so that you can be a good parent at the soccer tournament, so be it. My priorities for the Camaro are driving dynamics, not cup holder count, not shuttling people, not a number on a piece of paper that tells everyone how powerful my engine is. It's just driving dynamics, and the Camaro has it in spades.

Hell, even the Mustang makes a more compelling argument than the Challenger.. I'd argue that GM and Ford battling against each other for so long has sharpened their product line. Dodge, err, Fiat err I mean Stellantis hasn't been in the trenches fighting for the niche market that Ford and GM have, and I think that's why they decided to bring a blunt instrument into the fray. "What driving dynamics? Just throw a big engine in it and call it a day, the American psyche is fragile enough to buy into it!" And guess what, they were right for the most part.

But that's clever product and marketing. Why fight the battle if you can avoid it? Catering to a different crowd is much easier than having to compete with others.

It's kinda like the video game console situation. Microsoft is constantly struggling against Sony while Nintendo knows to just instead lead their products in a completely different direction so they just avoid fighting against Sony altogether. Works pretty great.

There aren't a lot of choices if you want something that look retro right now. An affordable-ish coupé with good practicality? Yeah, that could attract people.

And it's not like Dodge is somehow incapable of making a great sports car. Viper ACR, anyone? And if we are talking about Stellantis as a whole, then they have a much bigger list of sports cars.

Maybe Camaro could have done a coupé and sedan body style split. They share the same platform, but for "the masses", there is the stylish sedan that sacrifices handling for practicality, while the coupé is like the one we currently have. Sure it will piss enthusiasts off, but if it helps keeping the more hardcore coupé afloat, so be it.

[redcoats1976]

they have already done this with the T4 and 6 cylinder cars.as a proud RS owner i can tell you i would not buy a 4 door.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

As a result, guess whose eMuscle cars will be met with more goodwill in the future.

Exactly this. If gm plans to sell an ev Camaro it would make sense they put more effort into the gas version. That's not saying the 6th gen isn't a good sports/muscle car, I mean more effort into selling it.

I think Dodge bringing back the direct connection parts catalogue is a great idea and also informed me of this car around the corner. I took the picture below a while back because I thought it was interesting this person seems to use it as a dd. Chryslers version of an 80's El Camino. Not even sure what it's called but has the direct connection label.

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

But that's clever product and marketing. Why fight the battle if you can avoid it? Catering to a different crowd is much easier than having to compete with others.

It's kinda like the video game console situation. Microsoft is constantly struggling against Sony while Nintendo knows to just instead lead their products in a completely different direction so they just avoid fighting against Sony altogether. Works pretty great.

There aren't a lot of choices if you want something that look retro right now. An affordable-ish coupé with good practicality? Yeah, that could attract people.

And it's not like Dodge is somehow incapable of making a great sports car. Viper ACR, anyone? And if we are talking about Stellantis as a whole, then they have a much bigger list of sports cars.

Maybe Camaro could have done a coupé and sedan body style split. They share the same platform, but for "the masses", there is the stylish sedan that sacrifices handling for practicality, while the coupé is like the one we currently have. Sure it will piss enthusiasts off, but if it helps keeping the more hardcore coupé afloat, so be it.

Trust me, I'm perfectly ok with someone selling something that appeals to the masses. I just bought a sofa set a few weeks ago that doesn't have reclining seats, doesn't have motorized foot and seat rests. It does have surround sound speakers built in. My guess is that this sofa doesn't sell nearly as many units as the other sofas, and I'm actually ok with that.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

Hate to disappoint you, but the SS Sedan is being displaced because I want more of the driving experience that I mentioned above, also the SS Sedan is an auto, and I want a manual. So no I don't think I'll "get outta here". The SS Sedan also rated favorably when compared to the Challenger's 4-door brother because guess what, it was built on an earlier version today's Camaro platform.

And for the record, I'm not criticizing the Challenger for being a "bigger car". I'm pointing out that the Camaro has the driving characteristics that matter to ME.

If you need a larger trunk for groceries, or to store snacks so that you can be a good parent at the soccer tournament, so be it. My priorities for the Camaro are driving dynamics, not cup holder count, not shuttling people, not a number on a piece of paper that tells everyone how powerful my engine is. It's just driving dynamics, and the Camaro has it in spades.

Hell, even the Mustang makes a more compelling argument than the Challenger.. I'd argue that GM and Ford battling against each other for so long has sharpened their product line. Dodge, err, Fiat err I mean Stellantis hasn't been in the trenches fighting for the niche market that Ford and GM have, and I think that's why they decided to bring a blunt instrument into the fray. "What driving dynamics? Just throw a big engine in it and call it a day, the American psyche is fragile enough to buy into it!" And guess what, they were right for the most part.

Yet here you are complaining about why so many are more interested in the Challenger. Ok so your getting rid of the SS but still are going to daily your plain EV? Your man card was taken long ago. Most that buy these cars also use them as daily drivers which is part of the reason the camaro has failed. Compared to the other 2 the Camaro is the worst at being a daily driver.

[zxspeedspec]

If you can't daily drive a Camaro and you don't have little kids that require a car seat... you're probably ****ing up at life somewhere.