[airtroop01]

I thought I would post up my results…
While I have a V3, I’ve lurked on here for technical advice and thought I would pay it forward.

I could share why I went this route but, I am in California and if you know, you know…I’ll save the why’s for the comments section and get to the journey.

Before setup:
Stock V3/LT4 w/ 16,000 miles
RotoFab intake
Soler TB
Borla catback
Car ran solid to me.

After setup:
Magnuson 2650R full kit with tuner
103mm snout
103mm NW throttle body
RotoFab BigGulp
Elite e2x catch can
Stock headers
Stock cats
Stock fuel system
91 octane CA blend crap $5+ a gallon gas

I have done blower swap kits before and generally enjoy a decent project in my days off around Thanksgiving. However, I had herniated a disc in my back recently so I had JRG Motorsports do the installation and Newtech Performance do the tuning and dyno… a decision that I was happy I made….more on that later.

The intent was to:
1. baseline dyno to see where I’m at
2. Install base Maggy 2650 kit and emissions pending tune and dyno
3. Install larger snout, TB, RotoFab and dyno

The stock dyno was a bit disappointing. 507/560. Torque number was within range IMO but, it looked like the computer was pulling timing on the top end. I’ve seen similarly equipped cars pull 563/566. I was glad I got a baseline so I had something to compare to later.

Installation initially went smooth; the kit is well equipped and everything is in the box. The motor was hot and JRG cussed at the hot disassembly while I took pics. The only special work was to trim the valve covers in order to relocate the coil packs. The blower went on easy and it was time to fire it up. I didn’t notice earlier that I needed to contact Magnuson and send the stock tune in the mail… so trying to avoid waiting another day… we cut step 2 out and went to step 3 with a custom tune so we could get it back on the dyno. The car had some issues starting but eventually came to life.

We got it to the dyno to start getting the tune dialed in and that’s when the problems started. Idling seemed fine but as soon a load was put on it, the car would stumble. Logs showed that the high pressure side was delivering half of what was commanded. Fiddling with the tune, looking over the install, debugging runs to see if things changed…. No improvement. Put a gauge on the low pressure side to see if things are healthy. Yep, we are getting good pressure.

Days of frustration resulted in replacement of the high side pump, fuel pressure rail sensor, scouring the boards to see if anyone had a similar issue, taking the blower back off and inspecting the entire system including pulling lifters to see if all is right. Turns out just with 16,000 miles a stock low side fuel feed hose with a check valve inside can go out on you… I can’t emphasize enough how frustrated we were. Anyway, now with the blower back on… she fired right up. Back to the dyno….

Fuel pressure good. Let’s go!
673/614 - cool, now we’re talking
678/633 - even better
Knock sensor was indicating some activity and pulling timing. She still wanted to make power. We decided to shut it down and safely back the timing off since I had no octane boosting methods (e85 or meth or race gas).

So there you have it. Here’s what to expect from a 2650 on a stock-ish motor and 91-octane pump gas. I got a 171 hp gain. If my baseline was what I expected, it would have still been a 115hp gain. So, I am happy. Because the knock sensor is pulling timing, 93 octane and/or meth would have increased the power considerably. I expected these power results given headers/cats/fuel and we hit it exactly. Cooling on the blower is insanely better… it’s going to be so much better on the track. I can tell already in traffic it’s much better. I am glad that I didn’t do the install myself. Was I unlucky - yes - but I wouldn’t have been able to debug that check valve solo. More than likely I would have towed it to get fixed.



What’s next? I am getting:
e85 sensor
Cordes low side fuel setup
Toohighpsi fuel injection plates
60lb Siemens injectors
MAF Fusion controller

[radz28]

NICE!!! Magnuson quotes only 76-HP. Even though you're not running their tune, it's still nice to see those kinds of gains. Not a lot of people run this kind of combination, so for people who are interested in what just the blower (and a few airflow mods') do, this is very helpful. As you likely already know - heatsoak has a BIG effect on power, so if you came right off the street, and onto the dyno', the ECM's probably already pulling timing right off the bat. Compound that with multiple runs, and you'll be pulling 30-HP before you know it. Or - none of that happened, lol...

After reading about that stupid check valve, now I'm pondering that... Christ... I don't see problems, but why wait? And that dang Toohighpsi-port system looks SO TEMPTING...

Regarding your baseline - what gear was it dyno'd in? If it wasn't in ?5th? (is that 1:1 on the 8L'), and run in 4th, for example, it'd show a 20-RWHP (or so) less. Some guys don't like running their dyno's at the higher speeds these 8/10-speeds are in 1:1; 10L' is like 7th gear, and tops-out somewhere around 170 or something. If you weren't running in 1:1, that could account for the lower baseline. RPM just posted a video of Fran's V3, stock, and it put down not much more power than yours, so your numbers don't seem too crazy, from what I've noticed. I recall seeing numbers similar to what you'd seen, too, so as long as the dyno' was run in the same configuration as the baseline, who cares? Gains are gains

Thanks for sharing!!!

[airtroop01]

@radz28 - Yep, the car came right off the freeway in 580/880 traffic and stopped to unload the blower and other parts and then right onto the dyno. I agree with heat soak comments… I had noticed when pushing it on the twistys - low mid to mid high rpm while canyon carving - can make the little blower a little toasty. Torque was always good but running it out on a straightaway afterwards felt a little flat compared to a highway pull.

The dyno - it was run in 5th and 6th to see if there was a difference. The owner has a 1100hp z06 with a Maggy so he was basing it off how other z06’s were but, tried another run in another gear to be sure. The stock dyno was very wavy at the top end so we could tell the computer was having issues with the Chevron 91 octane with Techron blend.

That damn check valve. You can see there’s no indication on that hose that something is bad! And why would you even question it?! Esp with 16k miles! JRG put in a hose I think from a Camaro SS that he said had no check valve in it. In theory, it was supposed to keep the high side from ever starting up dry. I can tell you with the old hose it was experiencing more dry starts than with nothing. She fires up even faster now.

Yep, that Toohighpsi setup is looking like the economical way to get some power out and insurance for running big power instead of forcing it to run on crap gas. Mike mentioned they dial back the DI further with the kit at high rpm to keep DI pulse width under 6 and add more port pulse width to fill the void. It allows him to run full e85 and 26 degrees of timing across the range. If that means I can keep stock cam, stock headers and stock cats and approach 800hp…. I’m in!

[serper3]

Originally Posted by airtroop01

If that means I can keep stock cam, stock headers and stock cats and approach 800hp…. I’m in!

If the blower had a carb EO, and i could make mid 700s like you said with stock exahust manifolds, and cam. I would pull the trigger and do the same type of build.

thank you for sharing!!

I thought the limit would be mid 600s, maybe a bit more on the stock exhast manifolds, so this is pretty exciting. just need to wait on that carb EO.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by serper3

If the blower had a carb EO, and i could make mid 700s like you said with stock exahust manifolds, and cam. I would pull the trigger and do the same type of build.

thank you for sharing!!

I thought the limit would be mid 600s, maybe a bit more on the stock exhast manifolds, so this is pretty exciting. just need to wait on that carb EO.

I have been debating going this route as well as the OP, even put a deposit down on ordering one but i'm not sure with all of the extra addons he has he'll be able to pass smog without removing all of that and changing the tune. Correct me if i'm wrong here.

These mods specifically:

103mm snout
103mm NW throttle body
RotoFab BigGulp
Elite e2x catch can

[radz28]

Originally Posted by airtroop01

@radz28 - Yep, the car came right off the freeway in 580/880 traffic and stopped to unload the blower and other parts and then right onto the dyno. I agree with heat soak comments… I had noticed when pushing it on the twistys - low mid to mid high rpm while canyon carving - can make the little blower a little toasty. Torque was always good but running it out on a straightaway afterwards felt a little flat compared to a highway pull.

The dyno - it was run in 5th and 6th to see if there was a difference. The owner has a 1100hp z06 with a Maggy so he was basing it off how other z06’s were but, tried another run in another gear to be sure. The stock dyno was very wavy at the top end so we could tell the computer was having issues with the Chevron 91 octane with Techron blend.

That damn check valve. You can see there’s no indication on that hose that something is bad! And why would you even question it?! Esp with 16k miles! JRG put in a hose I think from a Camaro SS that he said had no check valve in it. In theory, it was supposed to keep the high side from ever starting up dry. I can tell you with the old hose it was experiencing more dry starts than with nothing. She fires up even faster now.

Yep, that Toohighpsi setup is looking like the economical way to get some power out and insurance for running big power instead of forcing it to run on crap gas. Mike mentioned they dial back the DI further with the kit at high rpm to keep DI pulse width under 6 and add more port pulse width to fill the void. It allows him to run full e85 and 26 degrees of timing across the range. If that means I can keep stock cam, stock headers and stock cats and approach 800hp…. I’m in!

From an SS you say?... Hmm... I'll have to check that out! Thanks!

Originally Posted by serper3

If the blower had a carb EO, and i could make mid 700s like you said with stock exahust manifolds, and cam. I would pull the trigger and do the same type of build.

thank you for sharing!!

I thought the limit would be mid 600s, maybe a bit more on the stock exhast manifolds, so this is pretty exciting. just need to wait on that carb EO.

Magnuson's told me testing is complete and passed just fine. They're waiting on CARB to finish "moving" and it's just a matter of them completing the process. It's just a little more waiting.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by clg82

I have been debating going this route as well as the OP, even put a deposit down on ordering one but i'm not sure with all of the extra addons he has he'll be able to pass smog without removing all of that and changing the tune. Correct me if i'm wrong here.

These mods specifically:

103mm snout
103mm NW throttle body
RotoFab BigGulp
Elite e2x catch can

It's doubtful he'd be able to meet all the monitor criteria without tripping a code, so far as I can tell. I hope he can, but I'd be concerned running that BG on the stock Maggie tune without going lean. I had to add a good amount of fuel on the other 2650-car I mess with. That catch can will have to come-off though.

[SFV1LE]

A good measure of the effect of heat on performance seems to be top speed on a road course... I run my 100% stock ZLE on warm days (90+ F) at Auto Club Speedway and Buttonwillow and I've noticed no noticeable loss in top speed at the end of straightaways even 10 minutes ~5 laps into a session. Lap after lap at ACS I hit the same top speed of ~160 MPH at the end of the long front straight before entering Turn 1-2, the stock blower and cooling system seem to hold up very well, never had any codes.

[serper3]

Originally Posted by clg82

I have been debating going this route as well as the OP, even put a deposit down on ordering one but i'm not sure with all of the extra addons he has he'll be able to pass smog without removing all of that and changing the tune. Correct me if i'm wrong here.

These mods specifically:

103mm snout
103mm NW throttle body
RotoFab BigGulp
Elite e2x catch can

OP won't pass smog with those parts. but... the catch can isnt a power mod per se. the biggulp and the throttle body can be swapped back to stock very quickly, I am pretty sure. the snout might be a bit more work, as the blower may need to come off? not sure on that, but also not sure how much power the snout alone will add so may be best to avoid.

i do not mind taking several hours to put the car back to the carb compliant setup, and carb tune for smog. I do not want to do long tube obviously as that is too much work, but as long as the magnuson tune wont throw codes, and visually everything looks like it is carb eo compliant. i am fine. i would put it back to carb compliant spec, drive it the next day or week to reset the monitors for testing. smog it, and put back the parts and tune.

Originally Posted by radz28

Magnuson's told me testing is complete and passed just fine. They're waiting on CARB to finish "moving" and it's just a matter of them completing the process. It's just a little more waiting.

dont have much faith unfortunately. I wont buy the system until the carb kit is out, and specifically applies to the kit i am buying. i mentioned before on here with the whipple gt350 kids its been probably 4 years since they have been saying the certification is pending approval. whether its carb, the kit mfgs who are trying to increase sales, etc., i dont really care. i just am not willing to take a risk like that and have to pull the blower potentially and put the car back to stock because the carb eo cert is still not out in a year and a half.

Originally Posted by radz28

It's doubtful he'd be able to meet all the monitor criteria without tripping a code, so far as I can tell. I hope he can, but I'd be concerned running that BG on the stock Maggie tune without going lean. I had to add a good amount of fuel on the other 2650-car I mess with. That catch can will have to come-off though.

any visual under hood mod will fail you, even if there are no codes. but that BG takes maybe ten min to swap on and off. just keep the stock parts and play the carb game going back to stock intake for smog.

[airtroop01]

Re: Yes, the RotoFab CAI, the 103mm snout and 103mm TB will need to be swapped out to get to smog legal status. The Maggy tune is calibrated for the stock snout and stock TB and the factory air box. That swap is easy enough to do during a weekend, reflash the tuner and log some miles to get the computer codes to all clear. The snout is able to be replaced without removing the blower.

Re: the catch can/oil separator- I picked the Elite engineering one because it is a closed system as opposed to the MM. Appendix G of the BAR has an other category where oil separator/filter does not require a EO verification. Regardless, Elite has a EO pending for their closed design system as I’m sure they are aware that scared smog techs are going to be unwilling to listen to any litigation that we hot rodders will do.

[airtroop01]

Originally Posted by airtroop01

Re: Yes, the RotoFab CAI, the 103mm snout and 103mm TB will need to be swapped out to get to smog legal status. The Maggy tune is calibrated for the stock snout and stock TB and the factory air box. That swap is easy enough to do during a weekend, reflash the tuner and log some miles to get the computer codes to all clear. The snout is able to be replaced without removing the blower.

Re: the catch can/oil separator- I picked the Elite engineering one because it is a closed system as opposed to the MM. Appendix G of the BAR has an other category where oil separator/filter does not require a EO verification. Regardless, Elite has a EO pending for their closed design system as I’m sure they are aware that scared smog techs are going to be unwilling to listen to any litigation that we hot rodders will do.

Correcting myself here… Re: Appendix G - that changed in 2019 and they took it out the main guidance. So it was legal in the 2017 guidance and you can still find the old pdf online. I just emailed Elite Engineering asking what the status of their EO was with the State of CA. They said the unit is 49-state emissions legal and here’s the quote:

“We have tried on several occasions to get this through CA, but have not had any luck recently. Currently we are at a standstill, and are still investigating our next move.”

Ugh, that’s more of a pain to remove than the snout, TB, and CAI.
Oh well, the unit is awesome and I know it doesn’t impact emissions one bit.
I’m going to run it and hope they figure this out before it matters to me.

[Carnage_SS]

I just installed the exact setup lol just waiting on the tune but with 93

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by airtroop01

I thought I would post up my results…
While I have a V3, I’ve lurked on here for technical advice and thought I would pay it forward.

I could share why I went this route but, I am in California and if you know, you know…I’ll save the why’s for the comments section and get to the journey.

Before setup:
Stock V3/LT4 w/ 16,000 miles
RotoFab intake
Soler TB
Borla catback
Car ran solid to me.

After setup:
Magnuson 2650R full kit with tuner
103mm snout
103mm NW throttle body
RotoFab BigGulp
Elite e2x catch can
Stock headers
Stock cats
Stock fuel system
91 octane CA blend crap $5+ a gallon gas

I have done blower swap kits before and generally enjoy a decent project in my days off around Thanksgiving. However, I had herniated a disc in my back recently so I had JRG Motorsports do the installation and Newtech Performance do the tuning and dyno… a decision that I was happy I made….more on that later.

The intent was to:
1. baseline dyno to see where I’m at
2. Install base Maggy 2650 kit and emissions pending tune and dyno
3. Install larger snout, TB, RotoFab and dyno

The stock dyno was a bit disappointing. 507/560. Torque number was within range IMO but, it looked like the computer was pulling timing on the top end. I’ve seen similarly equipped cars pull 563/566. I was glad I got a baseline so I had something to compare to later.

Installation initially went smooth; the kit is well equipped and everything is in the box. The motor was hot and JRG cussed at the hot disassembly while I took pics. The only special work was to trim the valve covers in order to relocate the coil packs. The blower went on easy and it was time to fire it up. I didn’t notice earlier that I needed to contact Magnuson and send the stock tune in the mail… so trying to avoid waiting another day… we cut step 2 out and went to step 3 with a custom tune so we could get it back on the dyno. The car had some issues starting but eventually came to life.

We got it to the dyno to start getting the tune dialed in and that’s when the problems started. Idling seemed fine but as soon a load was put on it, the car would stumble. Logs showed that the high pressure side was delivering half of what was commanded. Fiddling with the tune, looking over the install, debugging runs to see if things changed…. No improvement. Put a gauge on the low pressure side to see if things are healthy. Yep, we are getting good pressure.

Days of frustration resulted in replacement of the high side pump, fuel pressure rail sensor, scouring the boards to see if anyone had a similar issue, taking the blower back off and inspecting the entire system including pulling lifters to see if all is right. Turns out just with 16,000 miles a stock low side fuel feed hose with a check valve inside can go out on you… I can’t emphasize enough how frustrated we were. Anyway, now with the blower back on… she fired right up. Back to the dyno….

Fuel pressure good. Let’s go!
673/614 - cool, now we’re talking
678/633 - even better
Knock sensor was indicating some activity and pulling timing. She still wanted to make power. We decided to shut it down and safely back the timing off since I had no octane boosting methods (e85 or meth or race gas).

So there you have it. Here’s what to expect from a 2650 on a stock-ish motor and 91-octane pump gas. I got a 171 hp gain. If my baseline was what I expected, it would have still been a 115hp gain. So, I am happy. Because the knock sensor is pulling timing, 93 octane and/or meth would have increased the power considerably. I expected these power results given headers/cats/fuel and we hit it exactly. Cooling on the blower is insanely better… it’s going to be so much better on the track. I can tell already in traffic it’s much better. I am glad that I didn’t do the install myself. Was I unlucky - yes - but I wouldn’t have been able to debug that check valve solo. More than likely I would have towed it to get fixed.



What’s next? I am getting:
e85 sensor
Cordes low side fuel setup
Toohighpsi fuel injection plates
60lb Siemens injectors
MAF Fusion controller

Those are great numbers and much more power to come. Congrats on a nice build.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Carnage_SS

I just installed the exact setup lol just waiting on the tune but with 93

It will be interesting to see what you get out of 93. It's not apples-to-apples, but the more testing the better!