[BlaqWhole]

You can push the 1.7 far but you'll just need a ton of extra stuff like a very high percentage of ethanol, a crap load of meth, and chillers to get to where a bigger blower is at on just straight 91-93 octane. So technically you are not improving "efficiency" on the 1.7 by doing any of this. Efficiency would be if I'm making, let's say 700 RWHP at 12#, then I do an intake and LTs and my boost drops to 10# but now I'm making 730 RWHP. Then you spool it back up to 12# and you're making much more. This is all when comparing the same fuels. The fact is that a 1.7 CANNOT make certain numbers unless you start to add in meth, ethanol, chillers, race gas, etc...and even then it is still much lower in efficiency than the bigger blowers as I stated above.

The 1.7 is not an "efficient" blower by any means unless in it's stock configuraton making stock boost. You can increase the efficiency by freeing up the exhaust and intake. But simply porting the hell out of it, spinning it beyond what it should be spun, and then dumping a ton of meth and ethanol on it as a bandaid so it doesn't blow TF sky high, is not a lesson in efficiency. It just means that it is possible to push it farther than what is recommended and you're using bandaids to keep it all together. If anything you are severely decreasing it's efficienct which is why it is heat soaking and why you need cooling procedures in the first place.

Or actually, the best way to know if it is really efficient is to take the stock HP and divide it by the boost...then compare it to the HP you get after pulleying it when divided by the boost.

So if a standard ZL1 makes 550 at 9# (for argument's sake), then you are making about 61 HP per # of boost. If you pulley and port it and now you're making 600 at 11#, well then you are not as efficient because you are only making about 54 HP per # of boost. However if you took the stock configuration and did exhaust and intake and now you make 8 #s but are at 575 HP, then you increased HP and efficiency.

So to me the goal is always to make your car efficient and add power. Of course "efficiency" isn't the say all end all because you might be able to squeeze more HP while being less efficient but still within a god threshold or range and not need additional methods to keep the engine from blowing up. And that is cool. If a pulley gets you 30 HP then that is cool. But when people are pushing these blowers past what is efficient or even safe and then using all these methods to keep parts together but then claiming that smehow their setup is better or just as good as someone else who makes the same power but safely, then that becomes a problem. We used to refer to shops that pull that crap as "hacks" back in the day. Because instead of taking the time to do things the right way, they simply hacked stuff and claimed "oh we made X HP".

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You can push the 1.7 far but you'll just need a ton of extra stuff like a very high percentage of ethanol, a crap load of meth, and chillers to get to where a bigger blower is at on just straight 91-93 octane. So technically you are not improving "efficiency" on the 1.7 by doing any of this. Efficiency would be if I'm making, let's say 700 RWHP at 12#, then I do an intake and LTs and my boost drops to 10# but now I'm making 730 RWHP. Then you spool it back up to 12# and you're making much more. This is all when comparing the same fuels. The fact is that a 1.7 CANNOT make certain numbers unless you start to add in meth, ethanol, chillers, race gas, etc...and even then it is still much lower in efficiency than the bigger blowers as I stated above.

The 1.7 is not an "efficient" blower by any means unless in it's stock configuraton making stock boost. You can increase the efficiency by freeing up the exhaust and intake. But simply porting the hell out of it, spinning it beyond what it should be spun, and then dumping a ton of meth and ethanol on it as a bandaid so it doesn't blow TF sky high, is not a lesson in efficiency. It just means that it is possible to push it farther than what is recommended and you're using bandaids to keep it all together. If anything you are severely decreasing it's efficienct which is why it is heat soaking and why you need cooling procedures in the first place.

Or actually, the best way to know if it is really efficient is to take the stock HP and divide it by the boost...then compare it to the HP you get after pulleying it when divided by the boost.

So if a standard ZL1 makes 550 at 9# (for argument's sake), then you are making about 61 HP per # of boost. If you pulley and port it and now you're making 600 at 11#, well then you are not as efficient because you are only making about 54 HP per # of boost. However if you took the stock configuration and did exhaust and intake and now you make 8 #s but are at 575 HP, then you increased HP and efficiency.

So to me the goal is always to make your car efficient and add power. Of course "efficiency" isn't the say all end all because you might be able to squeeze more HP while being less efficient but still within a god threshold or range and not need additional methods to keep the engine from blowing up. And that is cool. If a pulley gets you 30 HP then that is cool. But when people are pushing these blowers past what is efficient or even safe and then using all these methods to keep parts together but then claiming that smehow their setup is better or just as good as someone else who makes the same power but safely, then that becomes a problem. We used to refer to shops that pull that crap as "hacks" back in the day. Because instead of taking the time to do things the right way, they simply hacked stuff and claimed "oh we made X HP".

You make some good points. I like to improve hp by improving efficiency (or reducing restrictions), not stressing components beyond their limits. But I'll add: Adding a CAI (or drop in K&N filter), ported TB, ported LT4 SC, LTs w/ green cats and tune will increase hp fairly significantly while decreasing boost using the stock pulleys, since there's less restriction through the intake and exhaust system. So, it is making power more efficiently and at less boost, not stressing the blower. The rotors are spinning the same speed as from the factory. And due to less boost the charge air won't be as hot, so the OEM intercoolers will have the capacity to keep up with the added air flow.

So, you can open up the airpath and improve the efficiency over the OEM setup. There are limits, of course. I don't really need/want an 800 rwhp car. I'm honestly content with the OEM power of my ZL1, but I think that someday I'll probably want a little more.

If I do mod someday, I'll probably go with the above mods to improve the air flow path which will reduce boost pressure. To make up a tiny bit of the lost boost I'll probably use an upper 2.4" pulley (OEM = 2.5"), which would add back around 0.4 psi of boost (which may still be less than the OEM max. boost). It's only 4% overdrive, so I'm not worried about it spinning the blower too hard considering it doesn't spend a LOT of time above 6k rpm anyway. It won't surpass the blower's redline OEM rotor speed until 6,250 rpm. The car shifts at ~6300 rpm in auto (according to my tach), so it will almost never exceed the OEM rotor speed except for those few tenths of a second above 6,250 rpm as it runs through the gears.

[CW3SF]

There is no singular right or wrong way to mod your car for what you want to do with it.

Port everything to the max on the intake side of the stock blower, open up the exhaust to the max, run as much ethanol as your system safely supports and use stock pulleys. Car will make 700whp and run cooler than stock. If you are good at that power level you will have spent way, way less than a max effort engine build and big blower. It’s not even close.

Is this the only way to go? Of course not. Will this way be capable of making as much power as a bigger blower? Of course not. Not everyone needs or wants that much power. Do whatever works for you and meets your expectations. If that means a full engine build and bigger blower that’s fine, go for it and enjoy it. If modding what’s there meets your expectations, go for it and don’t worry if someone on the internet thinks their way is the only way.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You make some good points. I like to improve hp by improving efficiency (or reducing restrictions), not stressing components beyond their limits. But I'll add: Adding a CAI (or drop in K&N filter), ported TB, ported LT4 SC, LTs w/ green cats and tune will increase hp fairly significantly while decreasing boost using the stock pulleys, since there's less restriction through the intake and exhaust system. So, it is making power more efficiently and at less boost, not stressing the blower. The rotors are spinning the same speed as from the factory. And due to less boost the charge air won't be as hot, so the OEM intercoolers will have the capacity to keep up with the added air flow.

So, you can open up the airpath and improve the efficiency over the OEM setup. There are limits, of course. I don't really need/want an 800 rwhp car. I'm honestly content with the OEM power of my ZL1, but I think that someday I'll probably want a little more.

If I do mod someday, I'll probably go with the above mods to improve the air flow path which will reduce boost pressure. To make up a tiny bit of the lost boost I'll probably use an upper 2.4" pulley (OEM = 2.5"), which would add back around 0.4 psi of boost (which may still be less than the OEM max. boost). It's only 4% overdrive, so I'm not worried about it spinning the blower too hard considering it doesn't spend a LOT of time above 6k rpm anyway. It won't surpass the blower's redline OEM rotor speed until 6,250 rpm. The car shifts at ~6300 rpm in auto (according to my tach), so it will almost never exceed the OEM rotor speed except for those few tenths of a second above 6,250 rpm as it runs through the gears.

Yes porting alone does increase efficiency. However as a stand alone mod the gains are not worthwhile. Which is why people also pulley it. I doubt there are any significant gains to be had from porting by itself. And again, the LT4 is soo small that even with an extreme port job you still have cooling issues when you pulley it. You need meth, ethanol, or a cooler to keep the temps in check at that point. That alone tells how inefficient that setup is. I'm not saying it can't make power or be safe, I'm just saying that it is not efficient at all.

Now Hellcats and GT500s are a different story. The only time you'll need meth or ethanol or a cooler on those setups is when you get close to eclipsing the limitations of pump gas which both of those blowers can easily do. The ZL1 blower is nowhere close to that level.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

There is no singular right or wrong way to mod your car for what you want to do with it.

Port everything to the max on the intake side of the stock blower, open up the exhaust to the max, run as much ethanol as your system safely supports and use stock pulleys. Car will make 700whp and run cooler than stock. If you are good at that power level you will have spent way, way less than a max effort engine build and big blower. It’s not even close.

Is this the only way to go? Of course not. Will this way be capable of making as much power as a bigger blower? Of course not. Not everyone needs or wants that much power. Do whatever works for you and meets your expectations. If that means a full engine build and bigger blower that’s fine, go for it and enjoy it. If modding what’s there meets your expectations, go for it and don’t worry if someone on the internet thinks their way is the only way.

Well I kinda disagree. There is a wrong way to do things. There are lots of wrong ways to do things. But there's just a lot of safety nets that people use to avoid disaster. That is not a good method for engine building. The idea that you can push something past it's breaking point but then just dump a ton of meth on it to keep it from blowing up and then advertising those numbers but then dialing the car back to where it is safe byt making 300 HP less than what was advertised is wrong. People get away with it. But it is wrong. Having a setup that requires full E85 to make the numbers you claim or else it drops a ton of power is also the wrong way. These are banbaids that shops have been using. What happens if you're some place where E85 is not accessible? Well then you don't have an X hp car. It's like claiming race tune numbers on race gas as your real street numbers. You ain't DDing on 106 octane and a race tune. Lol!!

I'm just saying, just because something is mainstream or popular doesn't mean it's the right way. Taking short cuts and the cheap route is not the right way to go about building a car. People do it. But it's not the right way. But to each their own. Their car, their money, their choice. It's none of my concern.

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well I kinda disagree. There is a wrong way to do things. There are lots of wrong ways to do things. But there's just a lot of safety nets that people use to avoid disaster. That is not a good method for engine building. The idea that you can push something past it's breaking point but then just dump a ton of meth on it to keep it from blowing up and then advertising those numbers but then dialing the car back to where it is safe byt making 300 HP less than what was advertised is wrong. People get away with it. But it is wrong. Having a setup that requires full E85 to make the numbers you claim or else it drops a ton of power is also the wrong way. These are banbaids that shops have been using. What happens if you're some place where E85 is not accessible? Well then you don't have an X hp car. It's like claiming race tune numbers on race gas as your real street numbers. You ain't DDing on 106 octane and a race tune. Lol!!

I'm just saying, just because something is mainstream or popular doesn't mean it's the right way. Taking short cuts and the cheap route is not the right way to go about building a car. People do it. But it's not the right way. But to each their own. Their car, their money, their choice. It's none of my concern.

And I disagree with your take. First of all, how does spraying meth even enter into a response to my post? I never said anything about spraying any meth. There’s also nothing I posted that suggested anything was being pushed beyond its breaking point. To the contrary, with stock pulleys and the cooling effect of ethanol it’s arguably better. Finally, there’s no shortage or e85 where I live so I never have to run it without ethanol unless I choose to. And even then, it’s a flex tune it runs great on 93.

So I’ll repeat what I posted earlier….if a full build works best for you that’s great. Knock yourself out. But that doesn’t mean someone else’s build is wrong if it’s meeting their expectations. No matter how many times someone says it does.

[Ron_Robinson1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well I kinda disagree. There is a wrong way to do things. There are lots of wrong ways to do things. But there's just a lot of safety nets that people use to avoid disaster. That is not a good method for engine building. The idea that you can push something past it's breaking point but then just dump a ton of meth on it to keep it from blowing up and then advertising those numbers but then dialing the car back to where it is safe byt making 300 HP less than what was advertised is wrong. People get away with it. But it is wrong. Having a setup that requires full E85 to make the numbers you claim or else it drops a ton of power is also the wrong way. These are banbaids that shops have been using. What happens if you're some place where E85 is not accessible? Well then you don't have an X hp car. It's like claiming race tune numbers on race gas as your real street numbers. You ain't DDing on 106 octane and a race tune. Lol!!

I'm just saying, just because something is mainstream or popular doesn't mean it's the right way. Taking short cuts and the cheap route is not the right way to go about building a car. People do it. But it's not the right way. But to each their own. Their car, their money, their choice. It's none of my concern.

Real quick what mods are done to your car to make 950 rwhp like your sig says. I’m kinda confused about your take meth. Are you saying it’s bandaid or shortcut? Do you run low side pump? How do you feel about direct port? All three system have pumps that are additionally add to their cars to increase fuel..right or wrong? Anyone of the pumps can fail? So are these short cuts also?

Not saying one is right or wrong, I’m just confused by your post. Looks like your car makes more than mine so you must be doing something right.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

And I disagree with your take. First of all, how does spraying meth even enter into a response to my post? I never said anything about spraying any meth. There’s also nothing I posted that suggested anything was being pushed beyond its breaking point. To the contrary, with stock pulleys and the cooling effect of ethanol it’s arguably better. Finally, there’s no shortage or e85 where I live so I never have to run it without ethanol unless I choose to. And even then, it’s a flex tune it runs great on 93.

So I’ll repeat what I posted earlier….if a full build works best for you that’s great. Knock yourself out. But that doesn’t mean someone else’s build is wrong if it’s meeting their expectations. No matter how many times someone says it does.

Uh, what's with your tone bro? Completely uncalled for.

Your first sentence is that there is no singular right or wrong way to mod. Is that not what you wrote or am I high?

My reply is that there IS a right and wrong way and then I mentioned specific examples of wrong ways. So you don't have to mention meth or anything. I mentioned it because it was an example that I used to prove a point. Get it?

There's no need you get all up in arms. It's only a damn conversation. Nothing more.

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by Ron_Robinson1

Real quick what mods are done to your car to make 950 rwhp like your sig says. I’m kinda confused about your take meth. Are you saying it’s bandaid or shortcut? Do you run low side pump? How do you feel about direct port? All three system have pumps that are additionally add to their cars to increase fuel..right or wrong? Anyone of the pumps can fail? So are these short cuts also?

Not saying one is right or wrong, I’m just confused by your post. Looks like your car makes more than mine so you must be doing something right.

Lol Hey Ron, its a joke... He posted wacky Dyno numbers like JSH does in his signature. He makes like 775 or something

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Uh, what's with your tone bro? Completely uncalled for.

Your first sentence is that there is no singular right or wrong way to mod. Is that not what you wrote or am I high?

My reply is that there IS a right and wrong way and then I mentioned specific examples of wrong ways. So you don't have to mention meth or anything. I mentioned it because it was an example that I used to prove a point. Get it?

There's no need you get all up in arms. It's only a damn conversation. Nothing more.

No one is up in arms but you dude. And yes you are clearly high. You aren’t the only one that can have an opinion.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

No one is up in arms but you dude. And yes you are clearly high. You aren’t the only one that can have an opinion.

Ok since you want to take it there, you made a statement. I disagreed and then provided a reason why I disagree. That is how a conversation works. If you're that tight that you can't even conversate or don't know how to have one then that's your problem.

And you are completely wrong. There are wrong ways to build a car. If you don't know that then you're gonna end up with a grenade under your hood. Go learn something and take your little attitude down a notch.

[FlowTie]

Find a reputable shop to do an Ebay turbo, run propane injection, and then drown the valves in STP.

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok since you want to take it there, you made a statement. I disagreed and then provided a reason why I disagree. That is how a conversation works. If you're that tight that you can't even conversate or don't know how to have one then that's your problem.

And you are completely wrong. There are wrong ways to build a car. If you don't know that then you're gonna end up with a grenade under your hood. Go learn something and take your little attitude down a notch.

My point wasn’t that a person can’t possibly F up an engine or a build. But you already know that. This is what you do. You try to find anything in a post that you can to argue about when someone opinion doesn’t match yours. Very Predictably as well. My entire point was that are ways other than a full engine build and bigger blower to make safe and reliable 700whp on these cars. But you already knew that too. I still stand behind that.

[Ron_Robinson1]

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

Lol Hey Ron, its a joke... He posted wacky Dyno numbers like JSH does in his signature. He makes like 775 or something

Understood buddy. Man ya’ll are supposed to get along on this forum lol.