[jvandy50]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Yes, but you know the Ford cult.... er.... I mean Ford fans. One C8 will need the windshield wiper fluid topped off by the dealer, and they will scream the Voodoo is more reliable...

The Mustang forums were doing some Olympic worthy mental gymnastics to convince themselves that Voodoo had the same small amount of issues that any new engine would. Didn't you have to replace two engines in the same car? I bet they probably blamed you too. Did you warm the car up enough? Did you check the oil every 100 yards of driving? Etc...

I only had one replacement, and that was plenty for me lol. But yes I've seen it all. Their first reaction to a new motor replacement post is to act like we all start them and bang it off the limiter immediately, while never once checking the oil during ownership. Now, undoubtedly there are probably some that actually do that stuff and I'm sure plenty didn't check their oil, but I've never seen anything like the run of those things popping in 2017-2019.

Best one was a guy who told me I must not have been around high performance engines very long, because they all have problems...he ended up going through 3 motors before he lemoned the car...not gonna lie, I enjoyed that one

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

I only had one replacement, and that was plenty for me lol. But yes I've seen it all. Their first reaction to a new motor replacement post is to act like we all start them and bang it off the limiter immediately, while never once checking the oil during ownership. Now, undoubtedly there are probably some that actually do that stuff and I'm sure plenty didn't check their oil, but I've never seen anything like the run of those things popping in 2017-2019.

Best one was a guy who told me I must not have been around high performance engines very long, because they all have problems...he ended up going through 3 motors before he lemoned the car...not gonna lie, I enjoyed that one

What he meant to say was "must not have been around Ford engines very long, because they all have problems". You have to translate for these guys, because they speak a different language. It's an ancient dialect from the country of Bullcrapistan, but I'm sure you may already know a few words since you owned one back in the day and had to deal with them...

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The GT350 does sound great, but none of them have heard the new Z06 in person yet, so it still remains to be seen. That reminds me of back in my modded 1995 Trans Am F body days in the early 2000s (340 rwhp w/comp cam+FBO LT1 M6), I used to think the Mustang GTs sounded better, but I would destroy GTs in any race - even the modified ones. Sounds only gets you so far...

I remember those days well - 4th gens really did rule the performance segment under the Viper and Corvettes. I always thought the Mustangs sounded "good", but hollow, and better was only due to their H pipe setup. Once I ditched the Y for Kooks true duals, the sound was much better than any Mustang of the same era.

Originally Posted by jvandy50

I only had one replacement, and that was plenty for me lol. But yes I've seen it all. Their first reaction to a new motor replacement post is to act like we all start them and bang it off the limiter immediately, while never once checking the oil during ownership. Now, undoubtedly there are probably some that actually do that stuff and I'm sure plenty didn't check their oil, but I've never seen anything like the run of those things popping in 2017-2019.

Best one was a guy who told me I must not have been around high performance engines very long, because they all have problems...he ended up going through 3 motors before he lemoned the car...not gonna lie, I enjoyed that one

Yikes!

As some have said, you can't compare a Voodoo to something you haven't heard in person. I will say this, I think both sound great already - and neither really has a subjective sound quality over the other in my opinion. Of course the performance is vastly different. GT350 owners will have to settle for being a unique Mustang, and that's about it.

[jvandy50]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Yikes!

As some have said, you can't compare a Voodoo to something you haven't heard in person. I will say this, I think both sound great already - and neither really has a subjective sound quality over the other in my opinion. Of course the performance is vastly different. GT350 owners will have to settle for being a unique Mustang, and that's about it.

yeah i never was hung up on the sound of the voodoo, although i do like it with headers. the FPC is a gimmick and doesn't rev fast at all. the powertrain needs viagra.

but it is my favorite looking mustang to date.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

yeah i never was hung up on the sound of the voodoo, although i do like it with headers. the FPC is a gimmick and doesn't rev fast at all. the powertrain needs viagra.

but it is my favorite looking mustang to date.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Voodoo counterbalance shaft, coupled with the weight of the S550 kept any sense of "fast revving" away from the GT350.

LT6 with no counterbalance shaft and DCT will most certainly rev "fast".

That said, I agree with your post, and the Voodoo power isn't really experienced until 6000+

[FlowTie]

I'm gonna skip talking about the C8. C7Z would be more in line with the field I think, I'll go with that. Before I bought my ZLE I considered a new M4, M2, TT RS, 718 GTS, C63S, M8, F-Type, as well as used M6, AMG GT, 360 Modena, and R8. This is basically my take on these four cars all things considered.

The GT500 is the only one of the four I haven't driven personally, I tried to find a test drive but dealers couldn't be bothered. It's a remarkable performance car but is overly complicated and expensive, not something I want from Ford. At $90k-$100k used right now with lackluster interior and some cool engineering, but no stick, I just can't get excited about it. It's practically an American AMG in my opinion. Some folks might see that as a compliment and some might not, I don't mean it as an insult or a compliment in either case. BMW, AMG, and Chevy all now make reliable high horsepower engines with crisp reliable automated manual trannies for their performance trims- yet Ford can't seem to catch the finer points of longevity. The GT500 can be good long term girlfriend material but not something I'd want to be stuck with after warranty runs out, which is the same reason I don't own the GT350 I want more in the first place.

The Challenger Hellcat is a wonderful performance GT car. I think they look the best out of all four and are the most comfy ride. While perfectly suited to comfortable street driving they can't hold a candle to the rest through corners on the track. All the same I really like them, if they came in AWD with the V8 I would ditch my daily for one. I've been trying to think of an excuse to buy one for years now. The interiors are boring if I have to pick one thing to be critical of, but as a whole they are marriage material.

The C7Z is a fun sports car. Great styling, reliable, great power, great ride- and not my cup of beer. If they were cheaper to insure for the street and more forgiving approaching the limit on a track I would be all over em, but I just don't jive with it like a Camaro. I don't fault the car for this, the shortcoming is my failure to adapt and get comfortable with them. If I were more into drag racing I would consider them further, the insurance isn't heinous really and I would be able to find limits with less risk on a strip, but I'd probably opt for the Hellcat all the same. C7's do have the best interiors, in my opinion second only to the C8, LC500, and M8. They are like a ZL1's slightly hotter older sister, attractive but no sense of humor.

The ZL1-1LE 6MT is what I went with so I'll speak on that and not directly the ZL1 A10 which admittedly fits this cast of characters better. It's a factory track car. Even though it's the least attractive looking to my eyes it's the most engaging and precise. Folks often fault it for the weighty price increasing interior features, or they might in contrast fault it for the stiff performance aspects of the ride. For me both things are a plus put together, but you pay for it. Would be nice having a full black stripped down interior option although admittedly since I already have the creature comforts in mine I do enjoy them. These cars are probably short term girlfriend material for most simply due to their track focus. Maybe you're like me and that stuff specifically appeals to you, if so it's hands down the best factory floor choice to own.

In summary, the GT500 is comparatively street oriented (with a high performance tranny) and the ZLE is especially track oriented (with a nicer interior). They seem kind of confused when paired but respectively are very compelling. I went with ZLE because it's a turnkey American factory road race track car. I wanted the most engaging experience on the widest assortment of tracks with the most performance per dollar. Surprisingly the Hellcat Challenger is somehow the most rational of the four options in my opinion, at least these days given price and streetability. Can't go wrong with a Hellcat. Finally, the C7Z/C8 is not my cup of beer, all the same they are fantastically well rounded sports cars. I wish I could love a low miles C7Z or a C8 like the ZL1, but I find the ZLE more appropriate for me.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by FlowTie

I'm gonna skip talking about the C8. C7Z would be more in line with the field I think, I'll go with that. Before I bought my ZLE I considered a new M4, M2, TT RS, 718 GTS, C63S, M8, F-Type, as well as used M6, AMG GT, 360 Modena, and R8. This is basically my take on these four cars all things considered.

The GT500 is the only one of the four I haven't driven personally, I tried to find a test drive but dealers couldn't be bothered. It's a remarkable performance car but is overly complicated and expensive, not something I want from Ford. At $90k-$100k used right now with lackluster interior and some cool engineering, but no stick, I just can't get excited about it. It's practically an American AMG in my opinion. Some folks might see that as a compliment and some might not, I don't mean it as an insult or a compliment in either case. BMW, AMG, and Chevy all now make reliable high horsepower engines with crisp reliable automated manual trannies for their performance trims- yet Ford can't seem to catch the finer points of longevity. The GT500 can be good long term girlfriend material but not something I'd want to be stuck with after warranty runs out, which is the same reason I don't own the GT350 I want more in the first place.

The Challenger Hellcat is a wonderful performance GT car. I think they look the best out of all four and are the most comfy ride. While perfectly suited to comfortable street driving they can't hold a candle to the rest through corners on the track. All the same I really like them, if they came in AWD with the V8 I would ditch my daily for one. I've been trying to think of an excuse to buy one for years now. The interiors are boring if I have to pick one thing to be critical of, but as a whole they are marriage material.

The C7Z is a fun sports car. Great styling, reliable, great power, great ride- and not my cup of beer. If they were cheaper to insure for the street and more forgiving approaching the limit on a track I would be all over em, but I just don't jive with it like a Camaro. I don't fault the car for this, the shortcoming is my failure to adapt and get comfortable with them. If I were more into drag racing I would consider them further, the insurance isn't heinous really and I would be able to find limits with less risk on a strip, but I'd probably opt for the Hellcat all the same. C7's do have the best interiors, in my opinion second only to the C8, LC500, and M8. They are like a ZL1's slightly hotter older sister, attractive but no sense of humor.

The ZL1-1LE 6MT is what I went with so I'll speak on that and not directly the ZL1 A10 which admittedly fits this cast of characters better. It's a factory track car. Even though it's the least attractive looking to my eyes it's the most engaging and precise. Folks often fault it for the weighty price increasing interior features, or they might in contrast fault it for the stiff performance aspects of the ride. For me both things are a plus put together, but you pay for it. Would be nice having a full black stripped down interior option although admittedly since I already have the creature comforts in mine I do enjoy them. These cars are probably short term girlfriend material for most simply due to their track focus. Maybe you're like me and that stuff specifically appeals to you, if so it's hands down the best factory floor choice to own.

In summary, the GT500 is comparatively street oriented (with a high performance tranny) and the ZLE is especially track oriented (with a nicer interior). They seem kind of confused when paired but respectively are very compelling. I went with ZLE because it's a turnkey American factory road race track car. I wanted the most engaging experience on the widest assortment of tracks with the most performance per dollar. Surprisingly the Hellcat Challenger is somehow the most rational of the four options in my opinion, at least these days given price and streetability. Can't go wrong with a Hellcat. Finally, the C7Z/C8 is not my cup of beer, all the same they are fantastically well rounded sports cars. I wish I could love a low miles C7Z or a C8 like the ZL1, but I find the ZLE more appropriate for me.

Nice summary. I was torn between a Hellcat and standard ZL1. For the money, I prefer the interior, less weight and sharper handling handling of the ZL1. I also like that I rarely see ZL1s anywhere.

For the track, the ZL1 1LE is the best bang for the buck.

I think this is the video that sold me on the Camaro. It is just the complete package. It is a shame it does not sell as well.

[FlowTie]

Been a while since I've seen something from motortrend that I completely agree with, but that video really captures how I feel about the two cars. Both are so good on average it basically comes down to personal preference and driving styles.

[BlaqWhole]

I think GM will never capture the sound like Ford did. I mean, arguably, one of the best sounding exhausts of all time is a Fox Body 5.0 with Flowmasters. And up to today Ford has always made better sounding cars. Although it comes with drone, they still sound really good. My GT sounds worlds better than my Hellcat and ZL1. Although my HC is still on the stock exhaust for now.

GM knocked it out the park again. There is no argument that GM has simply been making better performance cars stock for stock than Ford has in the past 10 years. The C7 was a homerun. Then the 6th Gen Camaro arrived and hit a homerun. The C8 then belted another one out the park with just the Base and Z51. And now the Z06 is hitting yet another one out the park. It's like having a team with all sluggers. Ford simply cannot compete.

However, when it comes to modding, GM is not on the same level as Ford. I mean, locked out ECUs that nobody can decode after a year of trying. No flex fuel capabilities like the Mustangs. You need an entire package including cam, heads, along with a blower on a Camaro whereas you can just slap a blower on the GT...and the GT will still make more power and has a stronger bottom end. So for modders, the Mustang is the better choice.

Having said all this I happened to come across a blue GT500 on the way home from work few days ago. I have seen them in the past in passing but that was from the other side of a highway. This one was right in the lane next to me at a stop light. I will say, after seeing one this close, I kinda want one. I can see why the Ford guys are going crazy over it and paying the markups. It really is a great looking and great sounding car!!

[Camaro fanboy]

still talking about these pos mustangs i see.
wouldn't have one for free. been there done that..hate the things.

[Martinjlm]

I'll just set this right here and let y'all discuss...

The Hellcat era at Dodge is coming to a screeching end.

Dodge CEO Tim Kuniskis told Motor Authority that the supercharged models are in their last days.

Redesigned versions of the Charger and Challenger muscle cars are expected to move to Stellantis' electrified STLA Large platform, which is capable of up to 500 miles of range.

"I will have this car, this platform, this powertrain as we know it, through the end of '23," Kuniskis told Motor Authority at the Los Angeles Auto Show this month. "There's two more years to buy a Hellcat, then it's history."

[hotlap]

End of an era. I will be curious to see if Ford hangs in or throws in the towel too

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by hotlap

End of an era. I will be curious to see if Ford hangs in or throws in the towel too

Ford has no plans to replace the S550, and we know the Camaro is dead.

Looks like we have been mandated out of options...

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Ford has no plans to replace the S550, and we know the Camaro is dead.

Looks like we have been mandated out of options...

I know a guy that’s working on engine cals for S650.