[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

It was an exaggeration but if torque were ALL that mattered, every engine with the most torque would be quickest accelerating. HP and gearing plays a role too and I'm sorry to tell you but the difference between the LT4 and LT6 torque rating isn't enough to make a huge difference in acceleration. The C8 Z06 is going to be CONSIDERABLY quicker than the ZL1 in the 1/4.

The torque is what your feel but with a special engine like this in the Z06 the sound and fact that the torque doesn't drop off all the way to redline will probably make up for it and folks won't care.

The issue I see with this car is trying to find space to wind it out so you can hear it that engine sing. This is why Miatas are so much fun on the street, you can wind out 3 gears to 7500 rpm and not risk jail time. At least in the ZL1 you can get a ton of grunt at 3600rpm.

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by zain

IMO C8 is of the ugliest corvette ever made! performance wise, we need to see real numbers on normal conditions which anyone could achieve.

I don't know...the C4 and C5 weren't exactly beauty queens.

Yes, I want to see real numbers as well. I hope Savageese gets the opportunity for an early review. I thought his reviews of the ZL1 1LE and C8 Stingray hit the mark.

[zapp]

If you go C8, I feel the Z06 is a must.
Looks also way better than the base C8, imho.

..But the markups and delivery times will be crazy, so it's not even worth considering the car for the next 2+ years from now..

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

This isn't just a "see Ferrari we can do it too". The holy grail of performance is mid-engine, GM had no choice but to move this route at some point in order to continue to improve performance.

This is what some folks just can't grasp. The pinnacle of performance in production car form will never be held by a front engine, rwd car. It just won't.

While Corvette moves forward, these people will be stuck in the past. And that's fine, there's a place for those people. But, for the brand to continue, this is what had to happen. Otherwise, Corvette would probably see the same fate as Camaro.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by zapp

If you go C8, I feel the Z06 is a must.
Looks also way better than the base C8, imho.

..But the markups and delivery times will be crazy, so it's not even worth considering the car for the next 2+ years from now..

Agreed. I know it sounds crazy but the C8 Stingray is just settling after seeing the Z06. They seemed to fix a lot of stuff I don't like, wheels, rear spoiler, wider fenders, improved stance, round quad exhaust tips moved to the center, etc. If you were in the market for a 2LT/3LT C8 Coupe/Vert for 90-100k then I would much rather have a 1LZ Z06 for similar money.

[HDRDTD]

The part that impressed me is when they were talking about all the engineering that went into shaping the exhaust tips in an 'inverse megaphone' in order to increase the interior exhaust note because it was too quiet inside. They wanted to let the driver enjoy the exhaust note of that high-reving FP engine.

It's the degree of engineering that goes into the small details that catches my eye.

If it makes 670 NA, who will be the first to add FI to it ??

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by hawk02

I don't know...the C4 and C5 weren't exactly beauty queens.

Yes, I want to see real numbers as well. I hope Savageese gets the opportunity for an early review. I thought his reviews of the ZL1 1LE and C8 Stingray hit the mark.

I would never base a car buying decision from anything that guy says.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by hawk02

I'm going to respectfully disagree that the Z06 was specifically designed for the track. If that's case, why offer a convertible version or the Z07 option?

GM knows it market very well. As you said, they understand that an overwhelming percentage of Z06s buyers will never ever take their cars to a track.

The question for someone like me, who I believe represents the vast majority of potential Z06 buyers, is will I be satisfied with a high reving, low torque Corvette on the street? Maybe I will and maybe I won't. Until I have a better answer to that question, I'm staying on the sidelines for now.

The Z06 was 100% designed for the track. The convertible is just a byproduct of the fantastic chassis that sees no drop in performance in convertible form.

And offering it in non-Z07 is just so that folks that want to drive it mainly for street use can do so.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

This is what some folks just can't grasp. The pinnacle of performance in production car form will never be held by a front engine, rwd car. It just won't.

While Corvette moves forward, these people will be stuck in the past. And that's fine, there's a place for those people. But, for the brand to continue, this is what had to happen. Otherwise, Corvette would probably see the same fate as Camaro.

Interesting take. We, unlike dealers, are not beholden to Chevrolet or GM and have no vested interest in seeing any GM platform or brand succeed.

I do not fail to grasp that the "brand" has to move "forward", and I guess what you mean by people like me being "stuck in the past" is that they just want the Corvette (or the Camaro for that matter) to stay the same no matter what.

Well, nobody here says or said that, we welcome innovation and change. However, while I can't speak for others, I don't see how emulating a design, an engine, an exterior and a platform that Ferrari and Lamborghini have been doing for decades is forward looking. Sure, it's nice that now GM also has a car like that, it will hopefully be available and at a reasonable price. The C8 Z06 is a great car, no doubt about it, it's just... looking outside of GM's fold, stuck in the past.

BTW, while the Z06 exterior does not kindle much emotion in me, I do love how they moved the exhaust tips back to the middle where they belong on a Corvette. Now, is that the past or the future ?

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Interesting take. We, unlike dealers, are not beholden to Chevrolet or GM and have no vested interest in seeing any GM platform or brand succeed.

I do not fail to grasp that the "brand" has to move "forward", and I guess what you mean by people like me being "stuck in the past" is that they just want the Corvette (or the Camaro for that matter) to stay the same no matter what.

Well, nobody here says or said that, we welcome innovation and change. However, while I can't speak for others, I don't see how emulating a design, an engine, an exterior and a platform that Ferrari and Lamborghini have been doing for decades is forward looking. Sure, it's nice that now GM also has a car like that, it will hopefully be available and at a reasonable price. The C8 Z06 is a great car, no doubt about it, it's just... looking outside of GM's fold, stuck in the past.

BTW, while the Z06 exterior does not kindle much emotion in me, I do love how they moved the exhaust tips back to the middle where they belong on a Corvette. Now, is that the past or the future ?

It's because Tadge and the rest of the engineers have said all along that they had hit the limit of what they could do with the front engine/rear drive layout for Corvette with the C7. They've managed to squeeze performance out of that layout for years and still remain relevant in terms of peformance but it's easy to see that the moving the engine is a huge leap forward. Just look at the base C8 performance numbers compared to C7.

Just look at how scary the C7 Z06 could be because it had a difficult time getting the power to the ground in that layout. It's why many people said that the Grand Sport was the best C7, because the Z06 was just too much to handle. Even the ZL1 does a better job of putting the LT4's power to the ground than the Z06 did.

Where could they go if they had kept that FE/RWD layout? That's what I mean by "stuck" in the past. There's no more moving forward with that platform. At some point, you're just sticking with that for nostalgia and heritage and you're no longer trying to stay relevant in the sports car/supercar market.

[BluinSC]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

The part that impressed me is when they were talking about all the engineering that went into shaping the exhaust tips in an 'inverse megaphone' in order to increase the interior exhaust note because it was too quiet inside. They wanted to let the driver enjoy the exhaust note of that high-reving FP engine.

It's the degree of engineering that goes into the small details that catches my eye.

If it makes 670 NA, who will be the first to add FI to it ??

Whoever can afford to add the necessary engine management software to be able to tune it. The 8 second C8 has to have two separate aftermarket ECU just to be able to drive without limp mode or electrical problems. If HP tuners ever does unlock the trans and ECU it'll be very expensive, even more so than ZR1

[JasonGofast]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

It's because Tadge and the rest of the engineers have said all along that they had hit the limit of what they could do with the front engine/rear drive layout for Corvette with the C7.

Where could they go if they had kept that FE/RWD layout? That's what I mean by "stuck" in the past. There's no more moving forward with that platform. At some point, you're just sticking with that for nostalgia and heritage and you're no longer trying to stay relevant in the sports car/supercar market.

They could've pushed it further, but it's easier to get performance out of the mid engine layout. Also it appeals to more apparently.
I only say this because the fastest car around the Nurburgring right now is a FE/RWD car.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by JasonGofast

They could've pushed it further, but it's easier to get performance out of the mid engine layout. Also it appeals to more apparently.
I only say this because the fastest car around the Nurburgring right now is a FE/RWD car.

How do you know that they could have pushed it further? Are you a Corvette engineer?

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

It's because Tadge and the rest of the engineers have said all along that they had hit the limit of what they could do with the front engine/rear drive layout for Corvette with the C7. They've managed to squeeze performance out of that layout for years and still remain relevant in terms of peformance but it's easy to see that the moving the engine is a huge leap forward. Just look at the base C8 performance numbers compared to C7.

Just look at how scary the C7 Z06 could be because it had a difficult time getting the power to the ground in that layout. It's why many people said that the Grand Sport was the best C7, because the Z06 was just too much to handle. Even the ZL1 does a better job of putting the LT4's power to the ground than the Z06 did.

Where could they go if they had kept that FE/RWD layout? That's what I mean by "stuck" in the past. There's no more moving forward with that platform. At some point, you're just sticking with that for nostalgia and heritage and you're no longer trying to stay relevant in the sports car/supercar market.

I agree that moving to mid engine was for performance.

To answer your rhetorical question on "where would they go with the FE/RWD layout", I hypothesize:

The C7 is technically, but barely, a front-mid-engine layout. The front of the heads and block are essentially dead even with the front axles. So that barely qualifies it as front-mid.

So, if GM kept the front-mid layout, they would have had to find a way to move the engine further back in the car. They could make the hood longer and push the front wheels forward, but only slightly, because they are already pretty far forward. Additionally, they might be able to move the rear wheels forward slightly as well, shifting more of the mass toward the rear tires. However, moving the engine rearward by increasing the dash to axle ratio would be key. It could be done (see AMG GT-R's massive dash to axle ratio and its 47/53 front to rear weight ratio), to shift more weight rearward. Moving the engine back, say 6 or 7 inches, would shift some weight to the rear tires (too busy to calculate it but probably around 2-3%) to further improve the weight distribution. There may be other things they could move from the front to the rear that I haven't mentioned of as well (they'd have to get creative I'm sure).

They would get a slightly quicker car around a track and 0-60 times would marginally improve (due to the rearward weight bias), again quickly reaching the limits of the architecture.