[hotlap]

Consider getting a second set of rims and tires for the winter/wet season. Cheaper than a second car and more satisfying than driving a beater those four months each year.

I did this during Wisconsin winters with a 2004 GTO, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th gen Camaros.

I changed to a 1LE this year and bought MRR wheels with Sottozero winter tires. I'll get them mounted soon. I put them on Thanksgiving and take them off ~April 1st.

[Chutzpah]

Hotlap, off subject….are the MRR’s an exact match in design to the OEM? I read and saw pictures somewhere that they have some softer curves side by side. I don’t see that now… so I’m wondering if MRR changed their mold, or it’s just my eyes aren’t picking up on it. Trying to decide on aftermarket for next car (a non tracker).

[zaimer]

My opinion - I've grown up & lived in serious winters my entire life - is that a person's driving skill will almost always trump all. I don't care if you have the latest technology, the grippiest winter tires, or the best AWD or 4WD system out there... you need to have the experience and knowledge with winter driving. You need to understand how the vehicle will react to the various conditions and how to do what, and when to do it lol.

A skilled person with a poor setup will do better than a perfectly equipped vehicle with a poor driver. This is true with most driving, not specific to winter conditions.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by zaimer

My opinion - I've grown up & lived in serious winters my entire life - is that a person's driving skill will almost always trump all. I don't care if you have the latest technology, the grippiest winter tires, or the best AWD or 4WD system out there... you need to have the experience and knowledge with winter driving. You need to understand how the vehicle will react to the various conditions and how to do what, and when to do it lol.

A skilled person with a poor setup will do better than a perfectly equipped vehicle with a poor driver. This is true with most driving, not specific to winter conditions.

Well said... Agreed 100%

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chutzpah

Hotlap, off subject….are the MRR’s an exact match in design to the OEM? I read and saw pictures somewhere that they have some softer curves side by side. I don’t see that now… so I’m wondering if MRR changed their mold, or it’s just my eyes aren’t picking up on it. Trying to decide on OEM or OEM for next car (a non tracker).

I haven't looked at the MRR's since I bought them in June but the only difference I see it the lug nut machining. The picture show the OEM on the car with the MRRs on the ground. The color and appearance looks the same to me.

The less expensive MRRs were a good choice for a winter tire but I wouldn't track them

[ember1205]

Ice is ice, and no drivetrain is going to conquer it any better than anything else.

A quality set of snow tires on a well-balanced vehicle will make a world of difference. I saw comments about Civic's - I can second that as well. Get a spare set of steel rims and mount snows on them, swap them on once the temps drop to around freezing regularly and take them back off once the temps are consistently back above freezing. You should easily get at least a couple of solid winters out of them that way.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by zaimer

My opinion - I've grown up & lived in serious winters my entire life - is that a person's driving skill will almost always trump all. I don't care if you have the latest technology, the grippiest winter tires, or the best AWD or 4WD system out there... you need to have the experience and knowledge with winter driving. You need to understand how the vehicle will react to the various conditions and how to do what, and when to do it lol.

A skilled person with a poor setup will do better than a perfectly equipped vehicle with a poor driver. This is true with most driving, not specific to winter conditions.

Overall, I agree. the one "gotcha" to all of this is that the skilled driver, regardless of setup, still has to drive around the people that have no idea what they're doing.

One thing that I used to do at the very first snow fall each year was to find a parking lot with no cars and no hazards (curbs, trash cans, etc.) and experiment with the car. It let me get a sense of how it would grip for acceleration from a stop, while moving, how it would corner, stop, etc. It also helped me to identify a sticky brake caliper one year because the car was not skidding straight when I jammed the brakes.

[gpskinzhut]

Grew up in western MA. Drove anything from an '81 Z28, '82 Trans-Am, 5.0 Lincoln Towncar, Hyundai, Probe GT, Jeep CJ7, VW Jetta GLI, and a host of others.

Jeep was no issue in 1' of snow. The '81 Z was probably the worst car in the snow for me.

Nothing was good on ice, regardless of drive configuration.

I moved to East TN in 2013 with an '09 Chevy Cruze that I'd driven all year round up north. It did fine. Traded it in for a 2010 Camaro 2LT. Drove that year round. Passed a couple of Subis on the way to the airport one day in some light snow, wondering what the hell their problem was.

Since the move, I can say, without a doubt, the biggest shortcoming is experience combined with poor road prep (south is never prepared for it, not to the degree the north is) and possibly wrong tires. Even the Camaro nowadays with snow & ice mode and ABS and a torque control... it's a breeze compared to the old stuff.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gpskinzhut

Grew up in western MA.

Same here. REAL Western MA, not that Springfield / Worcester crap. lol

Drove a '90 Toyota Pickup 4x4 to the top of Greylock over Thanksgiving weekend through close to 2' of snow on the roads. Tried the same with a friends Wrangler and it was similar but we didn't make the summit (tree across the road stopped us).

'90 Storm GSi, '90 Toyota Pickup 4x4, '96 Tacoma 4x4, '97 F150 4x4, '97 Explorer 4x4 w/ Auto four wheel drive

Moved to Southern NH. '00 Ram 4x4, '02 Maxima, '00 Tacoma 4x4, '06 TL

Moved to CT and have owned a bunch more since then. The TL was actually fine in the snow even though I lived on a pretty large hill. Even the Storm was decent in the snow and I passed quite a few 4x4's climbing out of downtown areas on my way home plenty of times.

Absolute WORST vehicles in the snow - towing (enclosed snowmobile trailer) with anything with "All Wheel Drive" that was actually a front-drive vehicle with rears that kick in "as needed".

[digitalfutur]

All season tires are designed for light snow conditions only, so they are useless in heavy snow. Yes, main roads get plowed, but the side street you live on is where you'll get stuck after a storm.

Some people substitute AWD for snow tires, which is a mistake. Any FWD or RWD vehicle with 4 quality snow tires mounted will outhandle any AWD with AS tires in snowy weather. I've done it in my Camaro with its Blizzaks from stoplights with SUV drivers who think that AWD + AS is best. It ain't.

It's the tires that make contact with the road, not the engine.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

All season tires are designed for light snow conditions only, so they are useless in heavy snow. Yes, main roads get plowed, but the side street you live on is where you'll get stuck after a storm.

Some people substitute AWD for snow tires, which is a mistake. Any FWD or RWD vehicle with 4 quality snow tires mounted will outhandle any AWD with AS tires in snowy weather. I've done it in my Camaro with its Blizzaks from stoplights with SUV drivers who think that AWD + AS is best. It ain't.

It's the tires that make contact with the road, not the engine.

That's the real point right there right. Now a days all the trucks, SUV's, Crossovers, etc... have these all season tires mounted on 20" or bigger wheels. If you took a 4WD, AWD, FWD, RWD and put dedicated Blizzark snow tires on all of them what would you rank them driving them in the same conditions. It's not a question. Like you said, the issue is that people think that a Crossover with 20" wheels and all season tires is going to handle great in the snow. Not true. Put dedicated snow tires on it and sure... It will. You put dedicated snow tires on any vehicle and it will handle good in the snow. (Given the driver is not an idiot)

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by jamala00

That's the real point right there right. Now a days all the trucks, SUV's, Crossovers, etc... have these all season tires mounted on 20" or bigger wheels. If you took a 4WD, AWD, FWD, RWD and put dedicated Blizzark snow tires on all of them what would you rank them driving them in the same conditions. It's not a question. Like you said, the issue is that people think that a Crossover with 20" wheels and all season tires is going to handle great in the snow. Not true. Put dedicated snow tires on it and sure... It will. You put dedicated snow tires on any vehicle and it will handle good in the snow. (Given the driver is not an idiot)

Many of the SUV's have "High Performance" all-season tires, which basically means you should view them as summer tires.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Many of the SUV's have "High Performance" all-season tires, which basically means you should view them as summer tires.

Agreed... People think just because you have an "SUV" or even some Pick-Ups these days that you are good to go for winter. Not true.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Agreed... People think just because you have an "SUV" or even some Pick-Ups these days that you are good to go for winter. Not true.

Those are the same people that won't drive that same vehicle across the grass! lol!!!