[Chef-j]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Sorry, but he was right. The SS is faster than the Charger / Challenger Scat Pack cars. I've raced many at the track in my stock '17 SS manual. There are also a lot of magazine road tests on both cars with the SS (with either transmission) edging out the Dodge cars.

There is one exception though: Dodge did offer a Scat Pack "1320" option with auto trans and drag radials as stock equipment. A Scat Pack with that option was the only unmodified Charger/Challenger NA V8 that beat me at the 1/4 track.

1320 is pretty same as regular 392. Not lot difference on stock vs stock other than DR and removed seats. Like little suspension parts got from Demon, idk if that helps a LOT when run vs other stock.

[MBSS1LE]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

They need to get some new blood in there. Hire someone from this forum! I'd bring back the Chevelle SS right off the bat. I'd have a muscle car line of the Corvette, Camaro, Chevelle and bring back the Buick GS 400 along with the Grand National!


Why are car makers more obsessed with these weenie cars? I want some muscle. They all focus on SUVs and trucks and big sedans now and just keep one performance car in their line.

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

the sad thing is you would probably fit in with management better at dodge.GM doesnt seem to want to invest in any type of musclecars in the future.rather than bring back the chevelle i would bring back an el camino with V6 andV8 engine options.

That's because the leadership at GM understands that the performance car buyer is just a very small segment of the people who buy cars. They cannot run a corporation and cater to the exception and not the rule. It's just solid business.

The internal combustion engine is on the way out except in very special use cases. This is not being driven by government, this is being driven by buyer preference.

[Chef-j]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

dodge seems to have that market pretty well covered.an older platform,but engine choices from V6 to great god amighty,cooler colors and better advertising.yeah,dodge gets it.

Also their size helps a lot. Most of 30s 40s, they wants something fun daily, v8 sounds and fits all family. Mustang/Camaro are too small for that. Very small portion of people can work those out with Camaro/Stang.

But anyway its sad to see all these are going away and will be all Ecars…

[MBSS1LE]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You've all come up with great ideas.....................to bankrupt GM again.

There is not a customer base large enough to support one of the old muscle cars let alone that many.

And you'd just cannibalize even more Camaro sales by offering more performance coupes.

GM has exited the sedan business because at the lower volumes there is no money to be made.

You think the only reason GM is making SUVs is because it's what they want? LOL, it's because it's what sells.

We on this website that come here to talk cars aren't the market. Coupes sell, all in, about 250,000 units (if that) in a 17 million unit market. 1.5%.

Lovely passionate thoughts, but there is a reason they aren't made.

Bingo!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Why do you think muscle cars wouldn't sell today like they did in 1968?

Over simplification, but you get the idea. Different generation with different priorities.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People been preaching the Camaro's demise since it came back in 2010. Anything and everything is some reason why the Camaro is doomed according to some people. If the wind blows hard enough in effing Wyoming someone will think that means the Camaro's demise.

I'll agree with you for in the past, but now with GM's push to EVs there is real concern. Like #3 said, Camaro is tied to the CT4/5 which Cadillac has already stated will be the last gas powered ones. Kind of puts Camaro to be in a odd man out position if it has nothing else to share with.

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Why do you think muscle cars wouldn't sell today like they did in 1968?

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Why do you think muscle cars are no long popular except for the niche audiences?

Because it's not the 60s anymore. Cars were a defining part of the culture back then. Drive in theatres, drive in restaurants, there was songs about cars, movies about cars, win on sunday sell on monday. Times have changed.

[Modernmusclecar]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I'll agree with you for in the past, but now with GM's push to EVs there is real concern. Like #3 said, Camaro is tied to the CT4/5 which Cadillac has already stated will be the last gas powered ones. Kind of puts Camaro to be in a odd man out position if it has nothing else to share with.





Because it's not the 60s anymore. Cars were a defining part of the culture back then. Drive in theatres, drive in restaurants, there was songs about cars, movies about cars, win on sunday sell on monday. Times have changed.

The success of the Challenger dictates otherwise.I think the retro look is still runing strong and the Camaros os suffering from it. Its 2nd only behind tbe Mustang now for a reason.

[MBSS1LE]

There is the list of best selling vehicle in March 2021. Of the top 25 sellers, there are four traditional "cars"; Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord. The rest of the list is trucks/SUVs/crossovers. The Mustang ranks 62nd on the top 100 sellers on this list, the Challenger 82nd and the Camaro doesn't even break the top 100 (It is 132nd, which is behind the Mustang Mach E which sits at 129)

This is not because there are no performance coupes available, it's because dedicated performance vehicles are no longer viewed as "do want" or "must have" vehicles. The car culture in America is diminishing and while I think it will always be there, it will never again be what it once was. As enthusiasts, we're just going to have to accept the fact that ICE-powered pony/muscle cars had their day, but that day is passing.

There is an entire generation of people who think they cannot do without a landline phone and have no interest in modern communication technology. But they are a small group and shrinking every year. I, too, think it is sad to see the car enthusiast numbers shrinking but I also recognize that sitting around complaining about it is a waste of time and intellectual capital.

Better to enjoy what we do have in the here and now (which are some of the best ICE-powered performance vehicles EVER) versus trying to somehow magically make performance cars relevant to the masses again.

Originally Posted by Modernmusclecar

The success of the Challenger dictates otherwise.I think the retro look is still runing strong and the Camaros os suffering from it. Its 2nd only behind tbe Mustang now for a reason.

Of the three, the Challenger offers a two door vehicle that can seat four adults comfortably and also has a trunk with 16+ cubic ft of usable space. (Mustang and Camaro have back seats, but neither will seat a large child, let alone an adult, comfortably. And the usable truck space is 13.5 and 9.1 cubic ft, respectively.).

If you are a buyer who is looking for a vehicle that will serve as both a family hauler and an occasional weekend toy, the Challenger is the best choice. The reasons above are likely why they sell as well as they do as compared to the Camaro/Mustang. Even then, it is number 82 on a list of 100 vehicles sold in a given time period. Not exactly burning up the charts.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by MBSS1LE

Here is the list of best selling vehicle in March 2021. Of the top 25 sellers, there are four traditional "cars"; Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord. The rest of the list is trucks/SUVs/crossovers. The Mustang ranks 62nd on the top 100 sellers on this list, the Challenger 82nd and the Camaro doesn't even break the top 100 (It is 132nd, which is behind the Mustang Mach E which sits at 129)

This is not because there are no performance coupes available, it's because dedicated performance vehicles are no longer viewed as "do want" or "must have" vehicles any longer. The car culture in America is diminishing and while I think it will always be there, it will never again be what it once was. As enthusiasts, we're just going to have to accept the fact that ICE-powered pony/muscle cars had their day, but that day is passing.

There is an entire generation of people who think they cannot do without a landline phone and have no interest in modern communication technology. But they are a small group and shrinking every year. I, too, think it is sad to see the car enthusiast numbers shrinking but I also recognize that sitting around complaining about it is a waste of time and intellectual capital.

Better to enjoy what we do have in the here and now (which are some of the best ICE-powered performance vehicles EVER) versus trying to somehow magically make performance cars relevant to the masses again.

Of the three, the Challenger offers a two door vehicle that can seat four adults comfortably and also has a trunk with 16+ cubic ft of usable space. (Mustang and Camaro have back seats, but neither will seat a large child, let alone an adult, comfortably. And the usable truck space is 13.5 and 9.1 cubic ft, respectively.).

If you are a buyer who is looking for a vehicle that will serve as both a family hauler and an occasional weekend toy, the Challenger is the best choice. The reasons above are likely why they sell as well as they do as compared to the Camaro/Mustang. Even then, it is number 82 on a list of 100 vehicles sold in a given time period. Not exactly burning up the charts.

What about the Charger? That is 4 door Sedan, has room and can be had in a small V8 or a Hellcast or Scatpack.


I see VERY few Hellcats or Scatpacks though.


I see a lot of the V6 Challengers, but not many people driving the V8.


Why not buy a Scatpack as a family car then instead of the v6?


It seems it's only the young men who like fast cars, and older guys who like these cars.


Don't people like getting into a fast car and getting knocked back into their seat from the torque?


The grocery getter does not spin tires and knock me back into my seat like my SS does.

[MBSS1LE]

Originally Posted by Modernmusclecar

The success of the Challenger dictates otherwise.I think the retro look is still runing strong and the Camaros os suffering from it. Its 2nd only behind tbe Mustang now for a reason.

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

What about the Charger? That is 4 door Sedan, has room and can be had in a small V8 or a Hellcast or Scatpack.


I see VERY few Hellcats or Scatpacks though.


I see a lot of the V6 Challengers, but not many people driving the V8.


Why not buy a Scatpack as a family car then instead of the v6?


It seems it's only the young men who like fast cars, and older guys who like these cars.


Don't people like getting into a fast car and getting knocked back into their seat from the torque?


The grocery getter does not spin tires and knock me back into my seat like my SS does.

I'm trying to figure out the question here. You ask, "what about the Charger?" What about it. Dodge sells a lot more V6/base Chargers and Challengers than V8 or upper echelon trims precisely because the majority of buyers don't car about being put back in their seat by torque or about the handling characteristics of their vehicle. Because getting those things has a higher cost, most buyers do not opt for those options/trim levels.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by MBSS1LE

I'm trying to figure out the question here. You ask, "what about the Charger?" What about it. Dodge sells a lot more V6/base Chargers and Challengers than V8 or upper echelon trims precisely because the majority of buyers don't car about being put back in their seat by torque or about the handling characteristics of their vehicle. Because getting those things has a higher cost, most buyers do not opt for those options/trim levels.

We do on here though!



Does also the generation have something to do with it? Like a lot of men now no nothing about cars, and a lot of them are beta, worried about carbon footprints, etc. Like that video I think I posted from an inside edition story about exploding tires. One of the clips was one of those beta looking guys in a dress shirt, in their 20s with their Airpods in their ears while filling his tire up and not paying attention and blew his tire up.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Over simplification, but you get the idea. Different generation with different priorities.
Attachment 1071238

i'm not sure that's the best argument

[90503]

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Modernmusclecar

The success of the Challenger dictates otherwise.I think the retro look is still runing strong and the Camaros os suffering from it. Its 2nd only behind tbe Mustang now for a reason.

true,but my comment was more to why more muscle cars in general wouldn't sell like back in the day. The majority of the population doesn't care about cars like they did back then.