[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Selling out now is only gonna benefit those who are looking to get out of this for a while. But the buy back in is gonna be costly. Most of those selling out will be dropping a trim level to get back in at the same prices. Because that is already what is happening. Even with Hyundais, Kias, etc. The pricing has all went up a tier. And the Mustang guys are making it even worse by paying %15K and $20K ADMs for a stupid Mustang. So then guess what. Why would a Chevy dealership keep letting ZL1s go for a discount knowing that not only were people gonna pay more MSRP for a POS GT500, but were also gonna drop an extra $15K+ on it? These dealerships are gonna start holding out until people want it bad enough and then pay the increased prices. Because someone who might not be able to get a GT500 or other likewise expensive vehicle WILL cross shop for the next best thing. So why let the next best thing go for cheap now?

Saw this new video just today when I went onto youtube.

[Wuiquen]

I guess now that GM is saying they don't expect production to normalized until calendar year 2020, the current high prices will continue for the rest of these years and probably onto next year until the new inventory starts to flow.

I wonder how the 2022 prices will be compared to 2021. Will it be a lot higher based on current situation? I can see dealers marking up but the car companies? Even if dealers mark up, when those cars come back to the used market, i would assume the dealers will pay based on the MSRP and not the marked up price.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Saw this new video just today when I went onto youtube.

LOL, well let's get this out of the way first...first of all, throwing the word "profit" and phrases like "made money off it" is a bit false. The only thing we can acertain is that the person sold the car for more than he bought it for. That in itself does not mean he made a "profit" or "made money off it". In order to know if he made a "profit", we would need to know exactly how much money he spent in total not only acquiring the car but also money spent on insurance, gas, storage, etc. He actually could have lost money which would mean he didn't make any "profit" at all.

Example. I buy a car for let's say $20K flat. I spend $1K a year for 10 years on insurance. So I'm in it for $30K now. During that time of ownership I spend $14K in gas driving the car. I spend another $3K in total cleaning it. I add a few things to it here and there all totaling maybe $4K. So I am in the car for $51K meaning in 10 years I spent a total of $51K on this vehicle. I then sell it for $38K. So yea, I sold it for $18K more than I bought it for...but did I make a profit or did I actually lose money on it? Basically I lost $13K in total owning this vehicle. So it is not a profit.

Sorry for the rant. I just can't stand when people throw those terms around like it has no actual meaning.

Anyway, GT500s at minimum are selling for $15K over MSRP. In this video the guy is talking about IF you get a GT500 at MSRP (you won't) and then sold it over MSRP. I can tell you now, NOBODY is buying a GT500 at MSRP. If anyone says they are or says then did, then they are flat out lying. At $82K MSRP these cars are being marked up by $15K at least. Which means they are going for $97K. Now maybe you can get a dealership to come down on MSRP to $10K, maybe. Or maybe a cash deal so it doesn't show up on paper for tax reasons. Or maybe signing over a car on trade of equal value to $15K and then paying MSRP. I've heard all kinds of stories on how people are paying or satisfying the markups. I know back in the Demon days one guy paid a $5K markup but the way he did it was he accepted a $5K lesser value on his trade-in. There are many ways around it.

GT500s in particular are part of the problem that is driving the market up drastically. Or rather, the idiots buying them with a $15K markup. They already drove the market up on the GT350 and GT350R for all those years they kept paying ADMs. Ford finally got mad and upped the MSRP so they could get a piece of the pie too. So the GT350 and GT350R both dramatically increased in MSRP. And now these same idiots are doing the same thing with the GT500 which is why the CF version of it was already well over $90K to begin with. If I was Ford I would bang that MSRP up another $7K since they're soo willing to pay more. I mean, why should a dealership make an extra $15K off a car that I'm manufacturing if I was Ford?

The market is screwed. Because now ADMs are starting to appear everywhere. The Mustang-E had ADMs. Some other dealerships like Kia and others are starting to throw ADMs on their popular vehicles. It is now becoming a trend. And videos like this are just gonna contribute. Because Ford is probably thinking from a money perspective that they undersold their product since a used, 1 year old, Base model version is selling for what the CF version listed at brand new. And if people are gonna pay $90K for a used GT500 and $15K markups on brand new versions and they're selling out, then GM and Dodge should be upping the MSRP on the ZL1, Corvette, Hellcat, and Redeyes.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Wuiquen

I guess now that GM is saying they don't expect production to normalized until calendar year 2020, the current high prices will continue for the rest of these years and probably onto next year until the new inventory starts to flow.

I wonder how the 2022 prices will be compared to 2021. Will it be a lot higher based on current situation? I can see dealers marking up but the car companies? Even if dealers mark up, when those cars come back to the used market, i would assume the dealers will pay based on the MSRP and not the marked up price.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

The dealerships are not ever gonna put themselves in a position where they're gonna take a big loss. Maybe every now and then they might lose a small amount of money on a sale...but they'll just absorb that loss across several other sales. Especially if they are a large volume dealership. The fact that these companies are soo willing to pay this much this fast for these cars is a bit of a cause for concern if you ask me. They're not buying all these cars for $7K, $10K, etc more than what the values were a year ago for nothing. And for the most part, these cars are selling fast. It's not like they're sitting around.

Going on Car Gurus you could have bought a 17 ZL1 with around 20K miles for around mid $40K last year. A few times I even saw them dip into the high $30K range for examples with more severe miles (50K miles). But now even the high mileage ones are over $50K. And even the 5th Gen Zs are seeing a spike too.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The dealerships are not ever gonna put themselves in a position where they're gonna take a big loss. Maybe every now and then they might lose a small amount of money on a sale...but they'll just absorb that loss across several other sales. Especially if they are a large volume dealership. The fact that these companies are soo willing to pay this much this fast for these cars is a bit of a cause for concern if you ask me. They're not buying all these cars for $7K, $10K, etc more than what the values were a year ago for nothing. And for the most part, these cars are selling fast. It's not like they're sitting around.

Going on Car Gurus you could have bought a 17 ZL1 with around 20K miles for around mid $40K last year. A few times I even saw them dip into the high $30K range for examples with more severe miles (50K miles). But now even the high mileage ones are over $50K. And even the 5th Gen Zs are seeing a spike too.

The dealers around here the newer used SS, 2018 and newer are not moving very fast. One has a 2018 2ss ragtop,A10, was listed 42,500 and just dropped to 41,500. Same ones just sit on the lots, the few Zl1s and SS there are.


You know what I do notice is Vroom has a ton of the Camaros listed and they're buying.


I've noticed the last couple years Vroom and Carvana have been buying up a lot of inventory and inflate the prices on their cars too.


It's really not fair. It always is like all these investors outbidding everyone buying houses and they turn around and rent them out at high prices. How is the traditional dealers going to compete if Carvana and Vroom hog all the inventory. That "could" explain why they're buying cars like crazy and offering good amounts. They're trying to bulk their inventory up. So if they're buying up all the Camaros and charging high prices and dealers can't get used ones because Vroom basically outbids them and offers way more then how will the car dealers compete? Forces you to go to Vroom and pay high prices.

[enzia35]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

yea, what's the deal with Mustang people paying ADM for an overrated Mach 1 or GT350 lol. I'd take a SS 1LE over a Mach1. What is so special the Mach 1? The 1LE is a faster car and cheaper than a Mach 1.

I've heard reviews gushing about the tranny. Its ported over from the GT350...and the same one in the Camaro since 2016!

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by enzia35

I've heard reviews gushing about the tranny. Its ported over from the GT350...and the same one in the Camaro since 2016!

So paying zl1 prices for a car slightly slower than a ss!!😆😆

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

So paying zl1 prices for a car slightly slower than a ss!!😆😆

Hell, it is slightly slower than the GT too. And now they're paying well over $90K for a car that is slightly slower than a ZL1. They're not the brightest people I can tell you that much.

But again, they're part of the reason why the market is going to increase. Like I said, if I was Ford, I would slap a $5K-$7K higher MSRP on the Shelbys and a $3K-$5K higher MSRP on the Mach1s and make some of that money that the dealerships are extorting them for.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Hell, it is slightly slower than the GT too. And now they're paying well over $90K for a car that is slightly slower than a ZL1. They're not the brightest people I can tell you that much.

But again, they're part of the reason why the market is going to increase. Like I said, if I was Ford, I would slap a $5K-$7K higher MSRP on the Shelbys and a $3K-$5K higher MSRP on the Mach1s and make some of that money that the dealerships are extorting them for.

Mach 1 is ugly looking too! Would be better off buying s performance package gt and throwing a super charger on it. Cheaper and faster than a mach 1.

[Backbone]

Originally Posted by enzia35

I've heard reviews gushing about the tranny. Its ported over from the GT350...and the same one in the Camaro since 2016!

Well, kind of.

The SS and ZL1 get the TR6060 which is a great transmission and capable of handling a lot of power.

Ford uses the TR3160, which I believe is what we get in the V6 Camaros.

[mcintyre1969]

My car hit Vroom, only $2k more than they bought it for. No way they are making any money after paying me!

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Backbone

Well, kind of.

The SS and ZL1 get the TR6060 which is a great transmission and capable of handling a lot of power.

Ford uses the TR3160, which I believe is what we get in the V6 Camaros.

Ford likes to skimp on the trans. Look at the Getrag MT82 garbage trans used in the 2011-2020 Mustangs. That was horrific some of the horror stories with the S197 owners and having to use lemon law.


You people complain about some minor shudders in our A8s, you've seen nothing compared to the MT82. I used to post on the Mustang forums when I had the Coyote so I've seen in a lot.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Mach 1 is ugly looking too! Would be better off buying s performance package gt and throwing a super charger on it. Cheaper and faster than a mach 1.

Which is exactly why I went with a used GT instead of any of their other overpriced crap. I could throw a blower on mine and still be cheaper than a Mach 1 all while blowing the doors off a GT500. And no, I don't care about the "ownership of a GT500" or any of the other crap that comes along with it. They are not worth the extra money.

Originally Posted by mcintyre1969

My car hit Vroom, only $2k more than they bought it for. No way they are making any money after paying me!

But they do this thousands of times. All that money adds up. Dealerships do this very same thing all the time and they're making crazy money. You think they're putting this much effort and expense into a failed venture and are sticking with it? More and more companies are gonna be doing this.

[mcintyre1969]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Which is exactly why I went with a used GT instead of any of their other overpriced crap. I could throw a blower on mine and still be cheaper than a Mach 1 all while blowing the doors off a GT500. And no, I don't care about the "ownership of a GT500" or any of the other crap that comes along with it. They are not worth the extra money.

But they do this thousands of times. All that money adds up. Dealerships do this very same thing all the time and they're making crazy money. You think they're putting this much effort and expense into a failed venture and are sticking with it? More and more companies are gonna be doing this.

Thats $2k! Transport fees are going to eat into that big time. Employees, rent, insurance .... Yeah, I think it is a terrible business model.