[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

and if you have batteries that last 20 years with 80+% of their original capacity still left, replacing batteries becomes a moot concern. Your vehicle will rust out and you'll probably inherit batteries from old cars into "refreshed" ones more often than taking your frame to a new battery pack.

That's with the hypothetical solid state lithium battery that was all over nature.com this week. Other tech could easily be in the same boat though - just depends on what can make it to market in the near future. Either way, current generation battery performance is not where it will be in a few years.

Yes, the batteries and motors should last a long time. I don't typically keep cars 8 years or 120,000 miles but it is nice to know the current batteries are rated to last 300k-500k miles. The electric motors should last even longer. Once the market is cranking out millions of EVs the cost will come way down. There will be an inflection point where it will not be practical to purchase the ICE based Honda Civic vs. the EV Civic when they both have the same sticker price.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/how-man...-a-tesla-last/

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Hops

Treating a car like a mobile living room that needs a desktop really turns me off, i have zero interest in that. I drive to connect myself with the road and remove myself from being on the computer all day at work. I hope future GM driving enthusiast oriented vehicles don't follow down the path of removing the driver interaction from actual driving.

That doesn't mean i don't want tech. I want the technology that connects me to driving like the HUD for example (something i don't think you'll find on a tesla!). There's probably other ways we could use tech to enhance driving, like enhancing the feedback from the steering wheel to encode more information than before. Maybe new visual representations of things like slip angle in vehicle HUD.

Exactly. The last thing I want when I jump into my Camaro is yet another freaking computer in my life that I have to babysit and adapt to.

The HUD is a good example of a positive aspect, it also aligns nicely with my preference of more and/or higher quality driver inputs. Current HUD implementations leave a lot on the table, I'd be happy to try one of those "augmented reality", "full windshield HUD" designs, something like that may actually work in the driver's favor.

Another silliness I don't care for is forcing people to use off-angle touch screens for everything. Dangerous, unintuitive, cumbersome. In that respect, I actually like the the MyLink 2.5 user interface with its big icons and simple screens, augmented by the physical controls for many key functions one actually needs to use (as opposed to "wanting" to operate a whoopie cushion app or browse the web at a stoplight). If only the visual design were a bit more modern with 2.5...

(btw why can't we have more/custom infotainment and DIC themes again??? and why can't I change the font from ALL CAPS to something reasonable??? these would be 10-15-minute jobs for a rookie...)

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Guys sure love the EV topic. This thread, similar threads on the HDForums are always front and center. Did anyone convince nonEV people to jump to the other side?

EV's will never be mainstream. They will just always fill a niche market. Too many things to figure out. Disposal of all the batteries, infrastructure for all the charging stations needed and all the power grids for those charging stations, all the drivers that will need to put a charging station in their garage (if they even have a garage), apartment complexes that don't have garages and would need to supply tenants with a way to charge their vehicle, people who live in areas where parking is a parking garage with no electricity, every youth kid that buys a $2000 beater or for that matter even adults that can only afford used beaters what are they going to buy? What is the used EV market? what are they worth? Who wants to buy a used EV that the battery/charging system is on it's last legs. That would be like buying an ICE that the motor was burning quart oil every 100 miles. You can't just bump up gas to $10/gallon and and then tell everyone... tough $hit, buy the gas or upgrade to a new EV. The Gov and oil businesses need to figure out how to replace all the revenue from oil. Ability to pull in to a gas station, top off and go in 5 minutes. I could keep going on the reasons why I don't feel EV's will ever be mainstream... Just my $.02, but I'd be willing to put $$ on it that they are never mainstream in my lifetime and that is a good number of years left (Hopefully)

I agree with this and for the HD truck market those guys actually don't really need to worry about EV on them for a while due to their fuel mileage not being EPA recorded. I think the target for them is 2045-2050 that is if the consumer chooses the EV ones the HD truck crowd is a lot different than the regular SUV crowd or Light duty truck crowd.

If they US wants EVs to be mainstream I agree with what a friend at a car meet told me which is they need Texas for the most part to be on board with banning gas sales like California but being from Texas himself he does not see that happening. I don't want to continue this because it might end up political and I don't want to break forum rules but the reasons given make a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Arizona_Droptop

We aren't exactly there yet, but more and more people are becoming 'electric people'. This is particularly true for the younger crowd. Electric cars are becoming part of the zeitgeist, and that is not going to be easy to change. And once electric cars start becoming cost competitive with ICE cars, game over.

The big problem now, few of those young folks who want EV's can actually afford them now. Or, they are too young to drive. But I have a feeling a lot people here overestimate how loyal people are to ICE, and underestimate the youngest generations allure to EVs.

I think in about ten years, most people will be electric people. That change will happen gradually, then suddenly.

I am 33 and there are a lot of people I hang out with at car meets my age or older that would rather not have an EV at the cost of the manual and/or Engine note. I remember when California banning all new car sales of Gas engines coming out made the news. I was watching it on TV and when Reporters asked Texas officials on it the reply was "We like our citizens to have choice and not have something forced upon them." It was something like that I would need to try to find the article if possible but I remember a reply like that when it hit news a year or so ago. I expect Kansas and Missouri to be in the same boat.

I would say the younger generation that is being lured to EVs is probably 20s-30s and then the ICE crowd ranges from 30s and older. This is why Toyota and Ford two of the biggest Automakers in the US are still keeping the ICE around and with the Mustang Ford is leaving it up to the fans to decide.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Hops

Treating a car like a mobile living room that needs a desktop really turns me off, i have zero interest in that. I drive to connect myself with the road and remove myself from being on the computer all day at work. I hope future GM driving enthusiast oriented vehicles don't follow down the path of removing the driver interaction from actual driving.

That doesn't mean i don't want tech. I want the technology that connects me to driving like the HUD for example (something i don't think you'll find on a tesla!). There's probably other ways we could use tech to enhance driving, like enhancing the feedback from the steering wheel to encode more information than before. Maybe new visual representations of things like slip angle in vehicle HUD.

I completely agree with you, but for me, the weekend fix suffices. I hop in, turn off the radio, lower the rear seat, and it’s on!

[genxer]

Aero drag force is a giant achilles heel for ev performance. Aero focused design kills (also) the Camaro's character. As per #3, Being a better coupe wouldn't, golf clubs being a poor choice of words.

The EV1 demise was stupid hype. It was lease only. No one else pushed hard into lead-acid or nickel cell ev's. It was to satisfy an early 90's California 0 tailpipe emission mandate, that was extended to Toyota/Honda hybrid, creating & knee-capping EV1's chance.

Young people will grow up and realize global warming/climate change is another racket.

EV will only be cheap if the source material regions get railroaded (and regs & tax handcuff fueled powertrains). China has cheap coal fired electricity. The western world likely is only doing it to cap Russia's CNG export prices. (Europe and elsewhere with more CNG vehicles could make sense)

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

This is spot on and I believe is the most likely reason that Ford is leaving it up to their customers to determine whether the ICE lives or dies. We all know if Ford is leaving it up to the Costumer base of the Mustang that the ICE will live on probably for the remainder of my lifetime now. Dodge which has shown fury in all attempt to compete with Ford will now probably do the same to avoid losing out on future Challenger sales.

Even if California bans gas engine vehicles they can make the ICE for states like Texas Kansas or Missouri. Wouldn't be the first time an automaker made vehicles for a certain market. Dodge did it recently with the last two years of the Caravan and Journey before they both ended in I believe 2020 to avoid increase costs of meeting up to states with higher emission restrictions.

There is no easy answer for this but I think Ford is tackling it the best way right now by giving its costumers the choice and I hope GM takes note of it and prolongs the ICE Camaro while also having an EV Camaro on the side. Hopefully that EV will not be a Crossover like the Mustang.

I agree I think Ford is going the right way. Putting an electric F-150 alongside regular F-150s is a good start, especially if the styling is right. Still don't agree with the Mach E being a Mustang but if it keeps the ICE Mustang around then so be it.

I think what Ford is doing(based off of speculation from the F-150 Lightning) is probably going to start offering electric versions of ICE vehicles, no crazy styling, just a regular looking vehicle with an electric power train instead of ICE

[redcoats1976]

if the mach e looked like a regular mustang i wouldnt hate it as much...just sayin.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

if the mach e looked like a regular mustang i wouldnt hate it as much...just sayin.

I was next to one this morning, it's not bad looking from the front or side. Ass end is beyond ugly though. And still hate they call it a Mustang but oh well

[raptor5244]

This is out of my price range but I think GM did a nice job here.

[ModernCamaroZ28Fan]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

This is out of my price range but I think GM did a nice job here.

Attachment 1068421

Agreed. But, I'm not feeling the truck variant. The Hummer was always an SUV in my mind.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Exactly. The last thing I want when I jump into my Camaro is yet another freaking computer in my life that I have to babysit and adapt to.

What is all this talk about calling EVs "computers" ? Doesn't the Camaro have a touch screen like every other new car on the road if I am not mistaken? Do you guys just disconnect your radios?

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by ModernCamaroZ28Fan

Agreed. But, I'm not feeling the truck variant. The Hummer was always an SUV in my mind.

What is all this talk about calling EVs "computers" ? Doesn't the Camaro have a touch screen like every other new car on the road if I am not mistaken? Do you guys just disconnect your radios?

Well, you tell me if this is a car or a giant touchscreen with wheels. The Model S was much better IMO.

When literally everything is in the software, you'll have menus to wade through and design ideas to consider, plus you can't operate anything without looking away from traffic and at a screen on your side due to the lack of tactility. Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind 3 extra physical buttons in my car for steering/suspension/exhaust modes, too.

I'm sure these points have been made ad nauseam, by the way, and people will tend to follow the path of least resistance anyway, recognizing and catering to which is a recipe for short term success.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ModernCamaroZ28Fan

What is all this talk about calling EVs "computers" ? Doesn't the Camaro have a touch screen like every other new car on the road if I am not mistaken? Do you guys just disconnect your radios?

Yeah, but it doesn't completely rely on that screen. Without the screen, I can still adjust the HVAC system fully(which, BTW, Camaro does better than Mustang and Charger - both Mustang and Charger hide some HVAC controls into the touch screen), see the speed, and control the audio to a certain extent. It's also designed in a way to not be overly intrusive. The physical buttons and knobs also give you feedback that you don't get with touch controls.

As much as I think Mazda's infotainment looks terrible, the knob controls actually work alright. They also are eliminating touch controls on the new Mazda3, which I don't think is the best idea, especially for models with navigation(punching in address with a touch screen is a lot better than using a knob), but given how well the knob works, I can personally live with that. I just wish it is a touch faster and doesn't look so crusty.

Look at the Tesla one. Even the speedo is integrated into the giant iPad. As much as we can hate on Mach-E, it at least has a proper speedo that's in a place that makes sense.

[Bob RS]

It's good for one thing, if your car throws a check engine light on star can tell you the code and what the problem is.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Well, you tell me if this is a car or a giant touchscreen with wheels. The Model S was much better IMO.

When literally everything is in the software, you'll have menus to wade through and design ideas to consider, plus you can't operate anything without looking away from traffic and at a screen on your side due to the lack of tactility. Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind 3 extra physical buttons in my car for steering/suspension/exhaust modes, too.

I'm sure these points have been made ad nauseam, by the way, and people will tend to follow the path of least resistance anyway, recognizing and catering to which is a recipe for short term success.

This minimalist interior is not my personal favorite especially in a sports sedan since you don’t get that cockpit feel however many people prefer the simplicity and eliminating all the buttons even down to the air vent controls. The air vents are electronically controlled via the touch screen or voice commands.

One benefit of this software approach is the voice recognition. You can press a button on the steering wheel and issue voice commands to perform functions so you never take your eyes off the road. For example, “Lower temperature 3 degrees”, or “ Navigate Home or Navigate to closest Mc Donald’s.” “Call Dave on cell”, or turn on windshield wipers, lower driver side window, warm my butt, turns on the seat heater. You can even open the glove box with voice commands.

This is one example of how EVs can entertain the drivers in different ways, so you can see how non driving enthusiasts could really enjoy this type of tech.

https://www.teslamodel3wiki.com/tesl...oice-commands/