[genxer]

Another type of messageboard user could more interested as policy wonks or biz types, polling/sampling. A fair enough thing.

Camaros lose their look if the design reverence for engines is weak. A pickle GM has is too many previous generation vehicles left people wanting. There's no easy signal on direction. El Camino fans wanted that Aussie Ute. Not a personal fan, but it's easy to see that as a better idea than the SSR was.

[genxer]

Also not fulfilling engine powered potential is a put-off. With looming EV mandates (or incentives), this is a shiv in the back to people here, and to current production. Unavoidably political.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by genxer

Also not fulfilling engine powered potential is a put-off. With looming EV mandates (or incentives), this is a shiv in the back to people here, and to current production. Unavoidably political.

For sure. It's worth reiterating: there's plenty of forums on the internet to discuss any future electric car people want to discuss.

This is not one of them. Even for members who've been here since the beginning.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

For sure. It's worth reiterating: there's plenty of forums on the internet to discuss any future electric car people want to discuss.

This is not one of them. Even for members who've been here since the beginning.

Of course, but this particular thread is about discussing the possibility of an EV Camaro. Just stop clicking on this thread if it bothers you so much. Maybe the moderators can create a sub-forum to discuss such a topic.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Of course, but this particular thread is about discussing the possibility of an EV Camaro.

Which falls under the “any future electric car” topic.

[Seniorrs]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Truth hurts - Touch a nerve did I?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Also not fulfilling engine powered potential is a put-off. With looming EV mandates (or incentives), this is a shiv in the back to people here, and to current production. Unavoidably political.

This is actually a very interesting point. There are a number of large suppliers that have been hard at work making ICE more efficient. It’s more the big Tier I suppliers like Continental, BorgWarner, Bosch, Denso that are doing the heavy lifting on engine tech. Some engines from Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai-Kia are getting thermal efficiency in the 40%+ range for gasoline. This approaches the efficiency of diesel. Thing is, more and more countries and municipalities are pushing zero emissions, so a lot of that tech will go unused as OEMs pivot to electrification.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cthulhucaller

There is no real growth without some sort of discomfort.

Don't know if you're still following this thread, but in case you are . . .

Try to realize that at some point, the discomfort can outweigh the presumed benefit. Maybe not for everybody, but certainly for some of us.


Norm

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This is actually a very interesting point. There are a number of large suppliers that have been hard at work making ICE more efficient. It’s more the big Tier I suppliers like Continental, BorgWarner, Bosch, Denso that are doing the heavy lifting on engine tech. Some engines from Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai-Kia are getting thermal efficiency in the 40%+ range for gasoline. This approaches the efficiency of diesel. Thing is, more and more countries and municipalities are pushing zero emissions, so a lot of that tech will go unused as OEMs pivot to electrification.

What a shame...."pivot to electrification"....sounds more like "cowering to the mob"....Zero emissions...so much for having a choice and not being forced to go EV....

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

What a shame...."pivot to electrification"....sounds more like "cowering to the mob"....Zero emissions...so much for having a choice and not being forced to go EV....

I don’t think they are so much “cowering to the mob” but more likely they are basically forming the mob.

Paris Accord and several other fact finding activities have identified that the pace of climate change is increasing. The Paris Accord prescribes for each of its participating countries what their stake should be in working towards reduction of greenhouse gasses that are driving the climate change. For most countries the largest contributors are in the transportation sector, so they are passing regulations to “fix” the transportation sector. Zero emissions vehicles is an easy starting point. The rate of transition to majority volume of zero emissions vehicles is a bit delusional.

[Devstrike]

It takes 5 minutes to fill up my Subaru and around the same when I pump premium in the Camaro. Unless they come out with a recharge time on the road trip to match that an EV is out of my list of possibilities not going to sit around waiting 30 or more minutes just to charge a car when I can fill up faster and get going. When I visit family in CT I like to drive and its a 1300 mile trip one way. Mostly in winter so we take the Subaru. I am not against EVs I am against not having a choice of what I want to drive.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

It takes 5 minutes to fill up my Subaru and around the same when I pump premium in the Camaro. Unless they come out with a recharge time on the road trip to match that an EV is out of my list of possibilities not going to sit around waiting 30 or more minutes just to charge a car when I can fill up faster and get going. When I visit family in CT I like to drive and its a 1300 mile trip one way. Mostly in winter so we take the Subaru. I am not against EVs I am against not having a choice of what I want to drive.

That probably won't be satisfactory to the Paris world bureaucrats deciding the standard of living and quality of life for citizens of the US. They have decided you are responsible for global warming and need to conform. You thought you were a free American? Good luck with that.

[Devstrike]

Well then they are more than welcome to imprison me and pay for my stay. EDIT: Or I Guess the taxpayers would foot that bill huh lol.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

It takes 5 minutes to fill up my Subaru and around the same when I pump premium in the Camaro. Unless they come out with a recharge time on the road trip to match that an EV is out of my list of possibilities not going to sit around waiting 30 or more minutes just to charge a car when I can fill up faster and get going. When I visit family in CT I like to drive and its a 1300 mile trip one way. Mostly in winter so we take the Subaru.

In a little bit I will be taking an 850 mile trip in the Camaro. I get about 350 miles to a tank on the highway. The next EV we are considering buying will have at least a 300 mile range, so let’s use 300 as the “stop to refuel” number.

I’ll drive the Camaro 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway. Fuel up (5 minutes). Hit a drive-thru (5-10 minutes). Somewhere in there I’ll hit a bathroom, but I’ll assume it’s baked into either the refuel time and food time, so 15 minutes. I’ll have to do that twice, so 30 minutes.

If I were driving the EV I expect to buy next year, I’ll drive 300 miles...Roughly 4, 4-1/2 hours. I will pull off the highway to a DC Fast Charger and plug in. While it’s plugged in I’ll use whatever food joint that is associated with the charger setup. The EV that I expect we will buy can ad 76 miles of range in 10 minutes charging time. So I’d plan a stop for 30 minutes, get food, bathroom breaks, back on the road with an additional 228 miles of range. I might have to do that two more times, but the second time I could recharge only 10 more minutes to get enough range to finish the trip. So now I’ve spent 70 minutes in recharge time for the complete trip. Repeat the process going back home. So now I’ve used 2 hours 20 minutes for “refueling” with the EV, vs 1 hr for the Camaro. For what would be about 24 hours of travel time, I’d be good with that. I do this sorta thing 2 or 3 times a year. For this trip I have coming up, I’m considering driving 8 hours and doing an overnight stay. If I did this with an EV, I wouldn’t have to have the 3rd stop, because I would just charge the vehicle overnight.

Now the flip side. With the Camaro I refuel every 5-8 days depending on how good the weather is and how often I go to the dragstrip. Roughly $25 per fill-up (I get e85 for $1.99 or it would be much more). So roughly 30 fill-ups during the portion of the year that the Camaro sees the light of day. Assume 5 minutes / fill-up. So 2 hours 30 minutes spent putting gas in the car and about $7,500. With the EV, every morning it wakes up with “a full tank” whether I need it or not. And the electricity would cost me a lot less than $7,500 for a full years usage, not just part year like the Camaro. The only people who worry about how long it takes to charge an EV have never spent a week with an EV.