05-02-2021, 10:53 AM | #225 | |
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When the computers start glitching out on a car it can destroy a few other cars and kill a few people. When the computers glitch out on a rig it can take out a building and hundreds of people. Computers glitch out. It’s a fact of computers and that will never change or be eliminated. Ever. There is no arguing that fact. Autonomous rigs on the highways with us. Great There’s no gravitating to faster cars. Electric appliances are not cars. |
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05-02-2021, 11:28 AM | #226 | |
Drives: LT W/2LT,blue metallic Join Date: Jul 2016
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05-02-2021, 11:32 AM | #227 | ||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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The traditional muscle car crowd was always more mechanically-oriented. Used to be, anyway, when muscle cars were all about the muscle and 'sports cars' and 'full-featured' was a contradiction of terms. Quote:
I knew going in that the S197 chassis was basically a good one for a number of reasons (Sam Strano moving over to it in SCCA's F-stock autocrossing, and yes I did get to watch him drive a Mustang a couple of times). And I was still surprised by how little it took to give it some real track cred ( Link (with a video clip) to a post I made yesterday ). Just so you know, back around 2005 I got to drive a 4th gen Firebird at autocross, and that was just such a nice easy car to drive hard, even for never having driven a 3rd or 4th gen before. My normal ride at the time was a '79 Chevy Malibu. ^^^ all nice mechanical/analog cars that were light on electronic technologies. Norm
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05-02-2021, 11:50 AM | #228 | ||
corner barstool sitter
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The trick after that is knowing yourself well enough to determine which of those really means more to you. Quote:
Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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05-02-2021, 12:03 PM | #229 |
Retired from GM
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I’m still of the opinion that there is a tool for every task. There will be a slew of new EVs coming to market between now and 2030. And they will be better than ICE vehicles at a lot of things and that will suit a lot of people. Dragstrip will likely be one of those things where they prove to be better.
There will also be a number of things where ICE vehicles will be better, and despite the best intentions of California, Maine, and Washington, they will still be available. Until battery technology advances a couple more generations, BEVs will be compromised on road courses and ICE vehicles will still be available for that. In my opinion, if you’re an enthusiast who enjoys performance driving in an ICE vehicle, you’ll still have options. Fewer options, no doubt, but options.
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05-02-2021, 04:57 PM | #230 |
Hail to the King baby!
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Yes, yes it does. Not sure why any serious car guy or gal wouldn’t. Absolutely impressive engineering.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-02-2021, 05:09 PM | #231 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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But 2030 is only 9 yers away. So even by 2023 if you had 100% of sales EVs (which is pretty much not possible) you’d still have well over 100 million ICE vehicles on the road by then. Older ones mind you but there would still be a need for gasoline. So as you point out someone will be making ICE vehicles if there is money to be made. As a point of reference, the GM Mark 5 big block is still in production. A company called PSI bought the tooling and is making them today,
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-02-2021, 05:10 PM | #232 | |
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Electric appliances are not impressive. Anyone can make electric motors fast. Whoopty doo. You’re not earning yourself any respect from me when you say stuff like this. So you might as well bark up someone else’s tree. Electric appliances are junk. Just because Porsche’s name is on the trunk don’t make it special. Sheesh. Put the twin turbo flat 6, all wheel drive, and 7 speed manual gearbox in it and we’ll talk. Maybe. If you ask me to forgive you for thinking anything electric could possibly be for true enthusiasts, we might be able to hold a civil conversation. |
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05-02-2021, 05:34 PM | #233 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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Sorry to lose any respect because I understand and appreciate the technology. But you are pretty much wrong with your statement that anyone can make an EV fast. If it were as easy as you’d think the Bolt would be faster than a Camaro. It isn’t by a long shot because it’s actually hard to balance performance and range and other vehicle attributes. It still takes serious engineering and integration. Only sorry as a car guy you too aren’t able to get that.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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05-02-2021, 06:03 PM | #234 |
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I'm on number 3's side. Drove a mustang mach-e the other day (the first Ev I've ever driven.) I was very impressed, and at $0.10 per killowatt-hour, it would cost 5 bucks to charge (from half a tank.)
Maybe I got a taste of the Koolaid, but anyone who is against Ev's at this point has never put the pedal down in one, the torque is awesome. I might buy one, and retire the Camaro to weekend toy duty haha (I gotta have a manual shifting V8 car for therapy reasons, but a quick electric SUV would make a great/fun commuter car)
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By my deeds, I honor him. V8!!! |
05-02-2021, 06:20 PM | #235 | |
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Maybe you have unicorn serum powering yours |
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05-02-2021, 07:51 PM | #236 | |
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That said, if you need the v8 exhaust note, manual transmission, etc. that you get from an ICE muscle/sports car to make you smile then I would hang onto the Camaro or buy both if you can afford it. As you mentioned, once a few ICE die hards drive a "performance EV", not some Chevy Bolt, they may change their mind. When I bought my Tesla, there were folks trading in Porsches, Corvettes, Maserati, etc. because they just love the torque and tech.
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05-02-2021, 08:08 PM | #237 | |||
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I think it is a bit of a stretch, though, to make a Hummer designed to negotiate the most remote and difficult terrain on batteries when the basic infrastructure for EVs to recharge is still a major hill to climb...(no pun intended). The Hummer is designed to be used in places that will likely be the last on earth to ever see any type of recharging facilities. But, not too surprising for a high-priced toy, status symbol that will likely never go off road to most buyers. Not in the EV for everyone category, for sure. Quote:
I remember when the Prius's were first being bought in significant numbers...Everyone hoped someone else would buy them so the demand for gas would go down and result in lower gas prices....lol...And at that time there was no talk of ending ICE or discouraging their sales or causing them to be a burden for anyone to own. Not exactly the case today. It seems EV popularity depends on ICE artificially and unfairly becoming gradually more undesirable. This is unfortunate and I think is the source of most resentment towards EVs today. Martin claimed EVs have been around for decades, but certainly no artificial advantage was given them in years past that is anywhere close to what is happening now. Pick your cause/excuse/explanation...They all do not end well for ICE...It is not a go ahead and choose one or the other....The game is rigged, and the winner already picked with ICE demonized as the problem and parroted endlessly to the masses. But , yeah, sure keep being a fan of ICE...That is until the pressure to bail out becomes too great. If EVs wins out in a free market all well and fine. That is definitely not going to happen. Even if the demand for gasoline goes down and down, their will likely be no market price reduction allowed to happen that would benefit ICE owners. Quote:
I think the reason you may see such vocal opposition (Sometimes way over the top and un-called for IMO) to EVs is that their success depends on the artificial elimination of perfectly fine ICE vehicles to insure their popularity. The US was energy independent and humming along just fine....Now we must throw it all away. Yes, of course EV success is the future and inevitable. Once it becomes unaffordable, impossible or illegal to purchase anything else, how could it not be? To say no one is "forced" to go EV is a half-truth at best. It's only a matter of degree and time before their is no other choice. Last edited by 90503; 05-02-2021 at 08:45 PM. |
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05-02-2021, 08:36 PM | #238 | ||
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
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Humans also glitch out. It's called mistakes. YouTube has plenty of proof if you want to look. The argument I would have might be security. It's more difficult to convince a trucker to purposedly weave into someone you want to take out than hacking into a computer and then have it do your criminal bidding. Another big part of it is just the ethics and laws can't keep up with it. If there is an accident, who is liable? Logically, I think that would usually point to whoever makes the AI and that creates a massive risk for any business that really wants to tap into it. Quote:
It's like how I look at a Prius. As a car guy, Prius is always the butt end of jokes, but as an engineer, you have to give Toyota props for coming up with a reliable and practical hybrid system as early as 1997. Again, you can say something is not for you(which I can totally agree with), but dismissing it as not impressive as if you can do better in your garage is pretty childish. And heh, if someone goes to an AutoX or track with an EV and runs circles around me, that's worthy of my respect and that's an enthusiast.
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