[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Just for fun, I just pulled the value of my car off KBB. The private party value is $2K more than I paid for the car new 3 years ago...! Granted, my car is in perfect condition and only has 8900 miles, but still. So I think the OP is onto something.

I ran mine through and listed it as "Very Good" condition with 50,000 miles. I got a private party median of $34,999, about $5,000 less than I paid for it.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by zaimer

Yes, exactly. This is what I am predicting to happen.

Basically what's going on with housing right now.

[Chevelle vs Camaro]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I ran mine through and listed it as "Very Good" condition with 50,000 miles. I got a private party median of $34,999, about $5,000 less than I paid for it.

Most people are gonna run theirs through as perfect. No ones going to pay perfect price. How long have you owned it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RealG]

It will be cool to look back on this in six months. If inflation is the reason the prices are going up they’ll be higher at the end of the year. if it’s a bubble they’ll be lower at the end of the year. Time will tell

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Chevelle vs Camaro

Most people are gonna run theirs through as perfect. No ones going to pay perfect price. How long have you owned it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just over 2.5 years.

[MR's 2SS]

My experience.
We just bought our 2SS vert the last day of Dec. 2020. A good time to deal for a convertible.
We paid just over $46,000 on a $53,000 sticker price.
I put us into KBB with 12,000 miles even though we have 900 miles and I did put excellent.
KBB range for private sale is $44,500 to $48,500.... pretty much exactly what we paid.
But consider that on the average new vehicle purchase you will lose 10% before the ink dries. If you signed the papers and never drove it off the lot and tried to trade it in the same salesman who just told you how great the car is will tell you how it depreciated 5 thousand dollars without you even turning the key... and in the same breath try to sell you the same truck back to you used for 5 grand more than he offered you on trade!!!
Without leaving your seat in the showroom.
Is it Camaro or inflation? Is it supply chain disruption on the chips? Are they halting production due to low demand because the lots are full of clunkers they cant sell? Pandemic?
I say all of the above.
The dealer lots are full of inventory on these smallish SUVs they are all trying to sell with 4 cyl engines. For way too much money. Large sedans with 4 cyl engines. 1/2 ton pickup trucks with dual turbo 4's...
All vehicles that I will never even give a glance at. And mostly over $40,000.00....
But I am a mechanically inclined motor head kind of enthusiast buyer. The market is being led... not by demand but by regulatory intervention on fossil fuels.
Enthusiast vehicle sales are pushed by demand. Whether that be a diesel pick up truck, a Porsche, or a Camaro. Demand for those is lower but more linear.
The lots are full of vehicles that are transportation modules for unenthusiastic drivers who really dislike cars and only require an appliance.
I remember a Chevy Malibu article in a car mag where the Malibu was referred to as a "Great car for people who hate cars"...
But theres a 2021 2SS Coupe with Magride and a sunroof sitting on the lot near me that has been there since last year.
September build date so maybe thats why? I dont know. But I almost bought that instead of the vert in December and could have gotten it for around 45 on a 47 plus sticker.
So when I go by the dealers mostly I see little egg shaped over priced POS toasters sitting.
If they try holding to higher prices on vehicles that already are undesirable they will just keep sitting. But if people need a new transportation module... and production of new cars is delayed... maybe they can sell these things.
And good desirable used car prices remain high because good desirable new cars are scarce.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

My experience.
We just bought our 2SS vert the last day of Dec. 2020. A good time to deal for a convertible.
We paid just over $46,000 on a $53,000 sticker price.
I put us into KBB with 12,000 miles even though we have 900 miles and I did put excellent.
KBB range for private sale is $44,500 to $48,500.... pretty much exactly what we paid.
But consider that on the average new vehicle purchase you will lose 10% before the ink dries. If you signed the papers and never drove it off the lot and tried to trade it in the same salesman who just told you how great the car is will tell you how it depreciated 5 thousand dollars without you even turning the key... and in the same breath try to sell you the same truck back to you used for 5 grand more than he offered you on trade!!!
Without leaving your seat in the showroom.
Is it Camaro or inflation? Is it supply chain disruption on the chips? Are they halting production due to low demand because the lots are full of clunkers they cant sell? Pandemic?
I say all of the above.
The dealer lots are full of inventory on these smallish SUVs they are all trying to sell with 4 cyl engines. For way too much money. Large sedans with 4 cyl engines. 1/2 ton pickup trucks with dual turbo 4's...
All vehicles that I will never even give a glance at. And mostly over $40,000.00....
But I am a mechanically inclined motor head kind of enthusiast buyer. The market is being led... not by demand but by regulatory intervention on fossil fuels.
Enthusiast vehicle sales are pushed by demand. Whether that be a diesel pick up truck, a Porsche, or a Camaro. Demand for those is lower but more linear.
The lots are full of vehicles that are transportation modules for unenthusiastic drivers who really dislike cars and only require an appliance.
I remember a Chevy Malibu article in a car mag where the Malibu was referred to as a "Great car for people who hate cars"...
But theres a 2021 2SS Coupe with Magride and a sunroof sitting on the lot near me that has been there since last year.
September build date so maybe thats why? I dont know. But I almost bought that instead of the vert in December and could have gotten it for around 45 on a 47 plus sticker.
So when I go by the dealers mostly I see little egg shaped over priced POS toasters sitting.
If they try holding to higher prices on vehicles that already are undesirable they will just keep sitting. But if people need a new transportation module... and production of new cars is delayed... maybe they can sell these things.
And good desirable used car prices remain high because good desirable new cars are scarce.

KBB, NADA, and any other "book value" tool is generally pretty useless. I've never, EVER, come anywhere near a book value for trade-in when I've traded vehicles. I've never seen private party sales actually transact at proposed values. So, while it's "fun to look", those numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme except to help value a car for insurance purposes or to obtain financing.

Color, mileage, exact options, trim level... these all come in to play when determining the RANGE of a car's worth for sale or trade. But, in the end, nothing is worth one single penny more than what someone else is willing to pay for it. In other words, the only way to find out what your car is worth is to actually sell it.

[Twist ZL1]

Regardless if it is a bubble or inflation, at the least it makes me happy I bought my barely used M6 ZL1 right before all the lockdowns last year. Comparable cars are listed anywhere from 6k to 10k above what I paid for mine.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

My experience.
We just bought our 2SS vert the last day of Dec. 2020. A good time to deal for a convertible.
We paid just over $46,000 on a $53,000 sticker price.
I put us into KBB with 12,000 miles even though we have 900 miles and I did put excellent.
KBB range for private sale is $44,500 to $48,500.... pretty much exactly what we paid.
But consider that on the average new vehicle purchase you will lose 10% before the ink dries. If you signed the papers and never drove it off the lot and tried to trade it in the same salesman who just told you how great the car is will tell you how it depreciated 5 thousand dollars without you even turning the key... and in the same breath try to sell you the same truck back to you used for 5 grand more than he offered you on trade!!!
Without leaving your seat in the showroom.
Is it Camaro or inflation? Is it supply chain disruption on the chips? Are they halting production due to low demand because the lots are full of clunkers they cant sell? Pandemic?
I say all of the above.
The dealer lots are full of inventory on these smallish SUVs they are all trying to sell with 4 cyl engines. For way too much money. Large sedans with 4 cyl engines. 1/2 ton pickup trucks with dual turbo 4's...
All vehicles that I will never even give a glance at. And mostly over $40,000.00....
But I am a mechanically inclined motor head kind of enthusiast buyer. The market is being led... not by demand but by regulatory intervention on fossil fuels.
Enthusiast vehicle sales are pushed by demand. Whether that be a diesel pick up truck, a Porsche, or a Camaro. Demand for those is lower but more linear.
The lots are full of vehicles that are transportation modules for unenthusiastic drivers who really dislike cars and only require an appliance.
I remember a Chevy Malibu article in a car mag where the Malibu was referred to as a "Great car for people who hate cars"...
But theres a 2021 2SS Coupe with Magride and a sunroof sitting on the lot near me that has been there since last year.
September build date so maybe thats why? I dont know. But I almost bought that instead of the vert in December and could have gotten it for around 45 on a 47 plus sticker.
So when I go by the dealers mostly I see little egg shaped over priced POS toasters sitting.
If they try holding to higher prices on vehicles that already are undesirable they will just keep sitting. But if people need a new transportation module... and production of new cars is delayed... maybe they can sell these things.
And good desirable used car prices remain high because good desirable new cars are scarce.

That's the problem. The Camaros here in Southwest FL don't sell well, the ones on the dealer lots NEW. Why? It seems every SS they get is a 2ss vert fully loaded with every option possible pushing 55k! Same with hard tops it's the LE. They're always loaded up.


Even the LT1 the rare times the dealers have an LT1 it's overpriced, due to all the options. It's about the same price as a 1SS.


The dealers like to load the Camaro up with that stuff to make more $$


See Ford sells more base model Mustang GTs. Other than my two small local dealers, the normal sized Ford dealers carry a bigger selection of the Mustang GT and base model with just the auto tranny.


Ford prices it better because many just want a base model, fast in a straight line and add your own stuff.


If Chevy had a more base model LT1 like the GT for the same price they would sell a hell of a lot more cars.


Like I bought a 2016 2ss last fall for a great price low miles. I wouldn't have mind buying a bare bones new LT1 or 1ss with just an auto tranny but there were now. There was 4 1ss I almost bit on.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

That's the problem. The Camaros here in Southwest FL don't sell well, the ones on the dealer lots NEW. Why? It seems every SS they get is a 2ss vert fully loaded with every option possible pushing 55k! Same with hard tops it's the LE. They're always loaded up.


Even the LT1 the rare times the dealers have an LT1 it's overpriced, due to all the options. It's about the same price as a 1SS.


The dealers like to load the Camaro up with that stuff to make more $$


See Ford sells more base model Mustang GTs. Other than my two small local dealers, the normal sized Ford dealers carry a bigger selection of the Mustang GT and base model with just the auto tranny.


Ford prices it better because many just want a base model, fast in a straight line and add your own stuff.


If Chevy had a more base model LT1 like the GT for the same price they would sell a hell of a lot more cars.


Like I bought a 2016 2ss last fall for a great price low miles. I wouldn't have mind buying a bare bones new LT1 or 1ss with just an auto tranny but there were now. There was 4 1ss I almost bit on.

What's your definition of a "base model Mustang GT"? If you literally mean a GT with -zero- additional options, there are almost none of those out there. Every single one of them has options added and the price range is 100% comparable to what's out there for LT1 trim cars. The problem is that we all see the Camaro as competing with the Mustang. But, Ford views the Mustang as a competitor to the Corvette.

The reality is that anyone looking for a car with power should be looking at the Camaro for HP/$. Everyone wants to blame marketing for the problems with sales numbers of the Camaro, but the bigger issue is that GM discontinued the model and gave up on the segment (and its audience) entirely. And they simply aren't producing them at a rate to 'flood the market'. They're willing to buy my business by giving me about 10% of the value of a truck in cash back but they offer next to nothing on a similar priced car? Give big cash back, "buy the business", and flood the market with Camaro's.

Anything GM does to bolster the Camaro eats into their business with the Corvette.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by ember1205

What's your definition of a "base model Mustang GT"? If you literally mean a GT with -zero- additional options, there are almost none of those out there. Every single one of them has options added and the price range is 100% comparable to what's out there for LT1 trim cars. The problem is that we all see the Camaro as competing with the Mustang. But, Ford views the Mustang as a competitor to the Corvette.

The reality is that anyone looking for a car with power should be looking at the Camaro for HP/$. Everyone wants to blame marketing for the problems with sales numbers of the Camaro, but the bigger issue is that GM discontinued the model and gave up on the segment (and its audience) entirely. And they simply aren't producing them at a rate to 'flood the market'. They're willing to buy my business by giving me about 10% of the value of a truck in cash back but they offer next to nothing on a similar priced car? Give big cash back, "buy the business", and flood the market with Camaro's.

Anything GM does to bolster the Camaro eats into their business with the Corvette.

The incentives for the Camaro blow too. When I was looking at new last fall. One dealer had great prices on left over 2020 because they had their own incentives tacked on to clear the last 4 out.


Ford offers better incentives for the Mustang.


What I mean by base models is just that, basic.


last sept when I was looking to possibly get one the large Ford dealer had 3 of them. Base model Mustang GT for about $35,500 with automatic transmission. One was new right off the truck. I still wanted the SS though but if I didn't find that used one I would have given the GT a serious look.


I don't think the SS competes with the vette except the ZL1. The c8 performance wise blows the SS away and price too.


Someone buying the Vette has money. If I had 65k to burn I'd pick the Vette over Camaro.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

The incentives for the Camaro blow too. When I was looking at new last fall. One dealer had great prices on left over 2020 because they had their own incentives tacked on to clear the last 4 out.


Ford offers better incentives for the Mustang.


What I mean by base models is just that, basic.


last sept when I was looking to possibly get one the large Ford dealer had 3 of them. Base model Mustang GT for about $35,500 with automatic transmission. One was new right off the truck. I still wanted the SS though but if I didn't find that used one I would have given the GT a serious look.


I don't think the SS competes with the vette except the ZL1. The c8 performance wise blows the SS away and price too.


Someone buying the Vette has money. If I had 65k to burn I'd pick the Vette over Camaro.

The true "base model" is a manual, and that's why I was asking what your definition was. The price you mentioned seems like it would have to have included discounts from somewhere because the base model MSRP is more than that before adding the automatic transmission.

My 2SS was listed at MSRP with a GM cash-back amount as it was nearing the latter part of the 2020 model year. When it was very easy to find invoice prices online, I would always start there as what I was willing to pay, and seldom moved much off of that number. Once the dealer understood that was where we were starting from, we could move forward with all of the other pieces like incentives, trade, etc. In the end, it always comes down to "my car plus how much" when you're trading, but forcing them to start at invoice allowed me to leverage them better on the trade value (because KBB and such assumes you're trading against MSRP).

Now, I ask them for the invoice price and go lower. GM has something called "Supplier Pricing" which is now my target as it's a bit less than invoice. The biggest issue with the Camaro and not being able to wheel and deal is that they simply don't sell enough of them. Dealers make money by selling volume. So, they can get money back by achieving sales quantities to unlock the hold-back moneys. If you happen to be buying right at the end of the month when they need literally one more unit to meet the number, you can get a great deal because giving you a larger discount on one car gets made right back up by bringing in a -lot- hold-back money.

[arpad_m]

The way I see it, the 6th gen Camaro is a unicorn, we are fortunate to have been able to buy one.

It makes no sense how good this car's performance and value is, it competes with cars over 2x its price, and unlike a top shelf German car, it's beautifully imperfect due to some idiosyncrasies GM, being GM, couldn't avoid "adding".

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Used 2020 ZL1s with 3-8k miles are listed on Cargurus for only slightly less than what I just paid for my new custom ordered '21 ZL1. Crazy. I don't understand why anyone would pay $62-63k for a used 2020 ZL1, when they could get a new one for $65k.