[CamaroWinz]

All I know is, every time one of my friends offers to race me in their Model S, I say "Okay. Sure. Here (NJ) to Pittsburgh."

Because IMO opinion that captures the Car World According to Me. I like acceleration as much as the next guy but stoplight racing doesn't do it for me. I like a good GT car. A car that I can wring out on a few hundred mile road trip - ride it hard, put it away wet. There's no electric car that can do that, yet - especially since their already questionable range decreases significantly at high speeds.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CamaroWinz

All I know is, every time one of my friends offers to race me in their Model S, I say "Okay. Sure. Here (NJ) to Pittsburgh."

Because IMO opinion that captures the Car World According to Me. I like acceleration as much as the next guy but stoplight racing doesn't do it for me. I like a good GT car. A car that I can wring out on a few hundred mile road trip - ride it hard, put it away wet. There's no electric car that can do that, yet - especially since their already questionable range decreases significantly at high speeds.

Which you would have a great chance at losing. Checking Google maps that 356 miles on I76. Teslas have achieved 400 miles of range. So unless you are proposing wildly illegal speeds (Cannonball) you might want to pick somewhere a bit further to force at least one recharge. And make sure you pick a car to go against that doesn't get an 80% recharge in 15 minutes (Taycan). And if you are proposing high speeds, I doubt your Camaro can go 356 without a gas stop.

Would be fun, i think it's closer that you think.

Also most of the Tesla videos against ICE a 1/4. The few you can find that run to 1/2 mile the ICE generally catches the Teslas.

[CamaroWinz]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Which you would have a great chance at losing. Checking Google maps that 356 miles on I76. Teslas have achieved 400 miles of range. So unless you are proposing wildly illegal speeds (Cannonball) you might want to pick somewhere a bit further to force at least one recharge. And make sure you pick a car to go against that doesn't get an 80% recharge in 15 minutes (Taycan). And if you are proposing high speeds, I doubt your Camaro can go 356 without a gas stop.

Would be fun, i think it's closer that you think

You're making my point for me, I think. I am talking about high speeds, which is going to cut the range of a Model S P100 roughly in half.

For that sort of stuff I generally use my A3. It has the advantage of achieving 29 mpg at 100 mph.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by mikeman

Sorry bro, I think you should change your screen name. No true "gearhead" would ever say the things you just mentioned. Unbelievable!

The Pontiac Turbo 4.9L wasn't a worthless engine. They had 210hp/345tq which was MORE horsepower and MORE torque than anything else at the time except for Corvette L-82 which had 220-230hp. However, torque on the L-82 was much less at only 275tq.

More importantly, if Pontiac was able to keep their own engine family instead of being forced into the GM corporate long stroke small bore SBC LG4/LU5 (which were boat anchors even then), they could've offered performance levels that matched or even bettered the Corvette. A 210hp/345tq turbo engine in a 3400lb 3rd gen Firebird would've smoked everything at that time.

You argue for EV's, but then say you would LS swap everything. Well, a Model 3 with the performance package option would make that LS swap seem like a boat anchor too. Unfortunately, Teslas are one trick ponies. After the launch charge wears off on the fastest initial run, the performance gets substantially slower to where you're running 0-60 in the 5's. Sure, that's still plenty quick for a big heavy 4 door sedan. However, the insane sub 3 sec 0-60 and mid 10 sec quarter mile times are long gone once you start using up the battery juice.

Anyway, most Teslas are pretty fugly looking anyway with their duck-like faces and boring jelly bean inspired designs. They sure don't compare to any newer Camaro or the older classics with those so-called boat anchor engines.

Yeah, I've driven a Model S. I'd rather have a slower Camaro that makes engine noises instead.

And when I compare the 82 Trans Am my mom bought I believe it delivered a whopping 145 HP. Those were the dark days for sure. There was a time when the Chevy Citation X11 was there fastest car to 60.

But it's what we had and for those days they were still great cars. Enjoyed them all.

[Martinjlm]

Ok, seriously. Whose buying criteria includes “can win a 300 mile race”?

From what I can tell, buying criteria depends on whether it is a primary vehicle or a secondary, focused purpose vehicle. Let me play a game, looking only at the three vehicles in my household. A 2012 Cadillac SRX, a 2017 Chevrolet Volt, a 2017 Camaro SS Convertible.

I can only buy one:
SRX. Volt would be a close second. No way the Camaro could be an only car in my household. Not getting the wife and two big dogs in that car. The other two can do that, the SRX with comfort and ease.

Have SRX, buying a second car:
Camaro. I’m sure I don’t need to explain.

Have Volt, buying a second car:
SRX. Tired of steamy dog breathe on the back of my neck.

[CamaroCracka]

And mine would be the Denali crew cab diesel. Which Tesla pulls 25k pounds? I couldn't get the wife's luggage in a model 3.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CamaroWinz

You're making my point for me, I think. I am talking about high speeds, which is going to cut the range of a Model S P100 roughly in half.

For that sort of stuff I generally use my A3. It has the advantage of achieving 29 mpg at 100 mph.

And cuts your FE in at least half if not more.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Which you would have a great chance at losing. Checking Google maps that 356 miles on I76. Teslas have achieved 400 miles of range. So unless you are proposing wildly illegal speeds (Cannonball) you might want to pick somewhere a bit further to force at least one recharge. And make sure you pick a car to go against that doesn't get an 80% recharge in 15 minutes (Taycan). And if you are proposing high speeds, I doubt your Camaro can go 356 without a gas stop.

Would be fun, i think it's closer that you think.

Also most of the Tesla videos against ICE a 1/4. The few you can find that run to 1/2 mile the ICE generally catches the Teslas.

Trouble is, generally those EVs with good range and fast charging tend to be on the more expensive side of things. Any ICE/hybrid car can fill up quite quickly and get somewhat good range, even a 1999 Honda Civic will fill up in 5 minutes and be ready to go, while you have to pay good money to do that with an EV as batteries are where the major cost is.

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

And mine would be the Denali crew cab diesel. Which Tesla pulls 25k pounds? I couldn't get the wife's luggage in a model 3.

I mean, there are EV pickup trucks coming out. Not sure how their range is while towing, would be curious to see.

[mikeman]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Also most of the Tesla videos against ICE a 1/4. The few you can find that run to 1/2 mile the ICE generally catches the Teslas.

The irony in that is ICE generally gets faster the less fuel it has (less fuel = less weight) and EV's get slower (as the battery charge goes down).

ICE can run all day at maximum effort except for heat soak considerations. EV's only run best when fully charged and then performance goes rapidly downhill.

The Porsche Taycan is reportedly strong all the time at any charge, but I don't know how true that may be in the real world.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Trouble is, generally those EVs with good range and fast charging tend to be on the more expensive side of things. Any ICE/hybrid car can fill up quite quickly and get somewhat good range, even a 1999 Honda Civic will fill up in 5 minutes and be ready to go, while you have to pay good money to do that with an EV as batteries are where the major cost is.



I mean, there are EV pickup trucks coming out. Not sure how their range is while towing, would be curious to see.

That was the last batch of BEV introductions. The technology is rapidly improving and the price of vehicles is coming down as automakers make more than just regulation requirement volumes. Bolt EUV will do 250 miles, has DC Fast Charging capability and pricing starts @ $33k. Nissan Ariya is nothing like the butt-ugly Leaf and will also have about a 250 mile range. Hyundai Kona is at 259 miles and costs a little over $30k. VW ID.4 also falls in that same grouping. Automakers are starting to make crossover vehicles with 200+ mile range at the upper end of the price range for same size crossover vehicles. They cost a bit more, but the money saved on gas and maintenance will likely offset that in a hurry.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That was the last batch of BEV introductions. The technology is rapidly improving and the price of vehicles is coming down as automakers make more than just regulation requirement volumes. Bolt EUV will do 250 miles, has DC Fast Charging capability and pricing starts @ $33k. Nissan Ariya is nothing like the butt-ugly Leaf and will also have about a 250 mile range. Hyundai Kona is at 259 miles and costs a little over $30k. VW ID.4 also falls in that same grouping. Automakers are starting to make crossover vehicles with 200+ mile range at the upper end of the price range for same size crossover vehicles. They cost a bit more, but the money saved on gas and maintenance will likely offset that in a hurry.

Meanwhile most family sedans available right now can do 350 miles without trying, and have better interior for the same price.

If you want half decent interior for those EVs, we are probably looking at US$40k. US$30k EV interior is probably comparable to US$20k ICE car interior, if that.

I won't attempt to predict the EV cost. Who knows how much room we have for cost reduction. Material still costs money and maybe the battery cost will plateau somewhere instead of keep decreasing at a steady rate.

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I mean, there are EV pickup trucks coming out. Not sure how their range is while towing, would be curious to see.

None have even close to the towing capacity of a full size diesel unless you count the ones intended for commercial freight, but who is parking one of those in their driveway.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Meanwhile most family sedans available right now can do 350 miles without trying, and have better interior for the same price.

If you want half decent interior for those EVs, we are probably looking at US$40k. US$30k EV interior is probably comparable to US$20k ICE car interior, if that.

I won't attempt to predict the EV cost. Who knows how much room we have for cost reduction. Material still costs money and maybe the battery cost will plateau somewhere instead of keep decreasing at a steady rate.

But how many times does anybody drive 350 miles in one day? Personally, I do that 3 - 4 times a year. In the meantime, you can wake up every morning with the full range available to you and not stop at a gas station or a charging station for months. I’m not going to choose a car based on something that I only do 3 - 4 times a year. Especially now that charging networks and fast charging are available. If it takes me a few minutes more to use a fast charger than it would have taken me to fill up with gas, I’m not gonna be too concerned, because that might happen 3 - 4 times a year.

Our next car will probably be Cadillac Lyriq to replace both the Volt and the SRX. The interior on the Lyriq is spectacular. Lyriq or a particular Chevy EV that my company forecasts will be on the market in 2023.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

But how many times does anybody drive 350 miles in one day? Personally, I do that 3 - 4 times a year. In the meantime, you can wake up every morning with the full range available to you and not stop at a gas station or a charging station for months. I’m not going to choose a car based on something that I only do 3 - 4 times a year. Especially now that charging networks and fast charging are available. If it takes me a few minutes more to use a fast charger than it would have taken me to fill up with gas, I’m not gonna be too concerned, because that might happen 3 - 4 times a year.



Our next car will probably be Cadillac Lyriq to replace both the Volt and the SRX. The interior on the Lyriq is spectacular. Lyriq or a particular Chevy EV that my company forecasts will be on the market in 2023.

I was referring to the road trip scenario that CamaroWinz proposed specifically. For in-town DD, I get it, EV range is plenty enough for that.