[SSDan]

Originally Posted by nystyle246

GOOD INFO... MY SOUND TUBE IS LONG GONE. CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT THAT BOLT SIZE IS???

I considered that bolt hole too as my sound tube is long gone as well but the 20 inch cable I bought wasn't quite long enough to reach. I am unsure of the bolt size but I kept the original bolts. I looked at the bolt heads and they had an S and either 10.8 or 10.9 stamped on them. I have no idea if that means anything.

If you can figure out the bolt size and get a 24 inch cable I believe you have a good spot for the engine ground.

Good luck! FWIW - this fix is still working great for me for almost two months now. No more slow cranking starter!

[Zayden2015]

Originally Posted by SSDan

Like many I have dealt with a slow crank on a hot start pretty much since one year of ownership until now. So that is for about 3.5 years. 1.5 years ago the dealership replaced the battery under warranty for this issue. That kicked the can down the street for about a year. So, for the last 6 months I've been dealing once again with slow cranking on a hot engine.

I saw four paths to follow to attack this problem:
- add a new ground cable
- replace the starter
- replace the battery again
- sell the car

I decided last week to take the path of least resistance and add a new ground cable. So, I spent $40.00 to get one from Lethal Garage. I didn't have high hopes but miracles of miracles - it worked. I have driven the car about 8 times since adding the cable and I have not had anything even close to a slow crank on a hot engine. I have tried to make it happen by adding in short stops with each drive. Today I had four short stops and restarts in one trip. It cranked fine every time. Prior to adding the new ground cable I wouldn't have dared try that! Its the best $40.00 I have ever spent on this car.

If you too are dealing with this - I highly recommend you try adding a new ground cable.

Here is a cold start:
[https://youtu.be/n8Honktafms]

Here is the first hot start:
[https://youtu.be/Z_cqf_TfAm4]

Here is the second hot start:
[https://youtu.be/nyA-AfeJCmk]

I didn't add videos for the 3rd and 4th hot start as they were the same as the first two.

This video shows where I added the new ground cable:
[https://youtu.be/x1Q0s1vw9a8]

Edit: I just went back and listened this video and realized I failed to mention that the engine bolt I used is part of the serpentine belt system. I didn't take the bolt all the way out. I just loosened it and then cut a small piece out of the ear of the lug and slid the lug under the bolt and tightened it down. If you take the bolt out all the way you will lose tension on the belt.

Update 12/30/20: With the saying in mind that if one is good then two would be better - I added another ground. This time I took on the other end of the car and added another ground from the battery's negative post to the floor of the trunk. This cable is a little smaller (2.0 guage) and I bought it off of Amazon for $14.00. I placed the body end of the ground on a unused threaded stud sticking up out of the trunk floor (look to the lower far left in the photo). I have no idea if another ground is helpful and needed . I just added it for peace of mind - plus it was easy and cheap.

Please pay attention to the edit I added with the last video on cable location for the engine ground. Do not remove the belt tensioner bolt I used. If you do you will lose tension on the serpentine belt. Instead cut a small piece out of the cable's terminal lug making it look like a U and then slide it under the bolt. You can back that bolt out enough to slide the lug under it and tighten.

I continue to have normal starts whether the engine is cold or hot.

Hey Dan so I got that grounding strap. It isn't exactly 20 inches so I had to find another place to ground it. I found this and its working. No issues so far

[grampa_ss]

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Hey Dan so I got that grounding strap. It isn't exactly 20 inches so I had to find another place to ground it. I found this and its working. No issues so far

Hmmm. is that frame to frame? if so, that won't matter at all. Needs to be frame to motor.

[Zayden2015]

Originally Posted by grampa_ss

Hmmm. is that frame to frame? if so, that won't matter at all. Needs to be frame to motor.

Ah then yea ill have to switch it up then. U sure it doesn't make a difference? Because its turned faster than I've ever seen. Is there any negative effects as is?

[grampa_ss]

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Ah then yea ill have to switch it up then. U sure it doesn't make a difference? Because its turned faster than I've ever seen. Is there any negative effects as is?

There really shouldn't be any effect if it was frame to frame. Now maybe if the lower connection point is connected to the motor or connected to a piece of frame that's closer to motor, then it seems logical that it'd be better. Maybe the top post and the spot you chose are not connected, and by adding the cable, you helped make a better ground.

I haven't looked at my car to see where that lower connection goes. So maybe you found another alternate mounting point.

[SSDan]

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Hey Dan so I got that grounding strap. It isn't exactly 20 inches so I had to find another place to ground it. I found this and its working. No issues so far

Originally Posted by grampa_ss

Hmmm. is that frame to frame? if so, that won't matter at all. Needs to be frame to motor.

If I see your connections correctly I agree with grandpa ss - that looks like both ends are connected to the body. The goal is to get the best ground possible between the engine (where the negative connection on the starter is made) to the car's body (where the negative connection for the battery is made.) See my photo of the battery connections and you can see there is a factory cable directly from the battery's negative post to the body. I added a second cable just to make sure that the negative flow between the starter and the battery was as good as possible.

The goal of all of this to make sure the negative electron flow between the starter and the battery is as good as you can make it. The negative electron flow goes from the starter into the engine block then crosses over to the the body using the engine to body ground cable(s) and then on through the body back to the battery ground cable(s) and finally flows up to the negative battery post.

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Ah then yea ill have to switch it up then. U sure it doesn't make a difference? Because its turned faster than I've ever seen. Is there any negative effects as is?

Originally Posted by grampa_ss

There really shouldn't be any effect if it was frame to frame. Now maybe if the lower connection point is connected to the motor or connected to a piece of frame that's closer to motor, then it seems logical that it'd be better. Maybe the top post and the spot you chose are not connected, and by adding the cable, you helped make a better ground.

I agree here as well. I certainly can't say the way you have the cable connected will not help. It will not hurt anything. I agree with grandpa ss's thoughts on that.

Can you keep that lower connection point where it is and then reach an engine ground location with the other end? That way you have added a body to engine connection point using the shorter cable you have.

[Mike Aruba]

Still no issues with mine. Very happy with the results. No hot start issues, and tach doesn't have a mind of its own anymore.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Ah then yea ill have to switch it up then. U sure it doesn't make a difference? Because its turned faster than I've ever seen. Is there any negative effects as is?

Has to be from engine block to frame otherwise you have really done nothing regarding a ground.

[Zayden2015]

Originally Posted by SSDan

If I see your connections correctly I agree with grandpa ss - that looks like both ends are connected to the body. The goal is to get the best ground possible between the engine (where the negative connection on the starter is made) to the car's body (where the negative connection for the battery is made.) See my photo of the battery connections and you can see there is a factory cable directly from the battery's negative post to the body. I added a second cable just to make sure that the negative flow between the starter and the battery was as good as possible.

The goal of all of this to make sure the negative electron flow between the starter and the battery is as good as you can make it. The negative electron flow goes from the starter into the engine block then crosses over to the the body using the engine to body ground cable(s) and then on through the body back to the battery ground cable(s) and finally flows up to the negative battery post.





I agree here as well. I certainly can't say the way you have the cable connected will not help. It will not hurt anything. I agree with grandpa ss's thoughts on that.

Can you keep that lower connection point where it is and then reach an engine ground location with the other end? That way you have added a body to engine connection point using the shorter cable you have.

In regard to grounding the other end to the block, no. Being connected to the same ground as the starter is about as close to the block as I can get or at least see. I measured the ground wire I bought and it's like 19 and a half inches long. If have to pull on it to completely get around the bolt you shown before. It makes sense now with you all talking about grounding to the engine. But its hard to explain the ease with the frame to frame. Just to be safe I'll redirect it to the block. Reason I did frame to frame is because I didn't have any cutters to make the U shape u discussed with the wire.

[Zayden2015]

Originally Posted by Mike Aruba

Still no issues with mine. Very happy with the results. No hot start issues, and tach doesn't have a mind of its own anymore.

I assume you did the same thing with frame to block?

[SSDan]

Originally Posted by Zayden2015

Reason I did frame to frame is because I didn't have any cutters to make the U shape u discussed with the wire.

I used my bench vise to hold the cable lug and cut the lug with a hack saw.

Good luck and find a way to get that cable connected to the block. You’ll be glad you did.

[GroundhogSS]

It's been just over a month since I did this. I also put one in the trunk from the neg post to a stud sticking out from the floor beside the fuse box. No slow starts and I think the starter is turning faster, like when you get a new battery. Very pleased. When we get temps out of the teens and single digits, with snow and ice, I'll try to start it. It will have sat up for about a week in the garage.

[KLG]

After reading about SSDan’s success (and everyone else’s) with adding secondary grounding cables, I decided to do something similar. I really haven’t had issues with the starter turning the engine over slowly, although, from time to time I have noticed just the slightest indication of the starter turning slowly, but it picked up right away.

So, first thing I did was check the existing frame to engine grounding. Someone had asked where the ground cable goes after attaching to the frame. After attaching to the frame lug, the cable goes down and over the alternator, with the other end attaching to the right side (passenger side) of the engine block, just past the alternator and ahead of the starter. I checked the tightness of that bolt (15 mm socket) and mine was tight.

I liked SSDan’s addition of a secondary ground cable in the trunk, so I did the same. The only difference is that I routed the second cable through the induction coil, just like the OEM ground cable. Does that make a difference? I don’t know, but I had a 32” cable and it fit.

I struggled a bit with how to run the additional ground from the body to the engine. For my first pass at it, since my sound tube is gone, I used the closest sound tube mounting spot and routed the cable along the radiator hose to the lug on the frame. However, I was concerned with galvanic issues connecting near the water pump and being so far from the starter motor. I wanted the additional connection to be close as possible to the starter. The galvanic issues are probably me just over thinking things, but I am OCD. I never tried starting the car with this arrangement and I removed it soon after installing it.

After studying the situation under the car, I came up with another setup. One end of the cable attaches using the bell housing bolt closest to the starter. The other end of the cable routs to an unused body stud in the transmission tunnel, right side. This stud is the same size as the stud in the trunk floor.

For the project, I used cables from O’Reilly’s. While only 4 gauge, I figure since I was supplementing the OEM grounding, 4 gauge should work fine and it is not too difficult to work with cables this size. And 4 gauge will carry a lot of current just on its own.

For all connections, I tested with my Ohm meter to confirm the body was grounded in the attachment areas. I had no more than 0.3 Ohm resistance after cleaning the body mounting points down to bare metal.

With this setup, I started the car and everything seemed OK. I am doing other work to it right now, so I haven’t been out for a test drive.

--KLG--

[SSDan]

Thank you KLG for your great write-up with illustrated photos! This is an excellent addition to the thread and gives forum members more options and details for ways to add grounds. If I had access to a lift I would have attached my engine to body ground the way you did. The closer to the starter that the ground is added the better.

Cheers!