[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I just had an interesting thought...

How much road noise is generated by the ICE vs just the wind it is pushing. How much quieter are roads going to be?

Too quiet. Car engines should make noise. Whether it's the rumble of an OHV pushrod, the bright sizzle of a flathead, the deep gurgle of a big block, the snap of a cammed motor, or the alto-soprano melody of an overhead cam....... cars are supposed to make noise

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I have and the things to note... garage has correct charger, short trips, not living in a condo or apartment,

I am not saying it is impossible - but how many GM vehicles are in a position to not have a plug near where the car parks? I will answer, lots.

The same gov pushing for the EV is also moving very quickly to higher density housing and away from single family homes. I think it's clear they want those people to use mass transit - which might work in some places, but certainly not most of the US.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I have and the things to note... garage has correct charger, short trips, not living in a condo or apartment,

What about homes that have two or more EVs? Easy to see happening when both parents work . . . let alone there being a third or fourth driver in the house with a schedule that doesn't match anybody else's.


Norm

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

What about homes that have two or more EVs? Easy to see happening when both parents work . . . let alone there being a third or fourth driver in the house with a schedule that doesn't match anybody else's.


Norm

I did think that one out a bit, if you have "their charger" and it can charge in a reasonable time - it could auto switch when one is charged. Or maybe you could even have it switch once one is at a certain charge level, so 50%. As for 3 or 4 cars that are in my household. No clue, luckily I have a garage and could most likely overcome that situation with "extensions" but that would require some serious planning. Let alone the cost.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

What about homes that have two or more EVs? Easy to see happening when both parents work . . . let alone there being a third or fourth driver in the house with a schedule that doesn't match anybody else's.


Norm

There are homes in my suburb San Jose neighborhood that are rentals and have 4-5-6 sometimes up to 8 people all drivers living in them - and nobody is parking in the 3 car garage either. How do all 8 of those cars get charged exactly? Not that I condone 8 single people living in a house and that is against code even here (for now) not that anybody enforces it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

And that right there is the issue I have with FORCING this to happen. What makes a lot of sense in dense urban areas, doesn't always make sense in less dense or rural areas, and vice versa. Then factor in things like what makes sense for a family of 5 when choosing a vehicle might not make sense for a young couple or single person. Which is why having CHOICES is a good thing. I'm all for people having the CHOICE for EV's or hybrids or ICE, but I don't think any one thing should be pushed on everyone.

You are comparing "old" information and applying it to the future.

Today, you can quick charge an EV to 80% in 15 minutes.

And people are working everyday to be better than that.

In the future you will see charging stations much more conveniently located.

Sure you can continue to come up with exceptions like living 300 miles from anything in New Mexico or Montana. But you have that today. If you are 300 miles from a gas station what do you do?

GM is investing in building 2700 charging stations.

In the future, if you are renting an apartment (another reason for EVs are bad) and enough people stop renting from people that don't provide charging stations and renting from people that do, customers will drive the change.

Everyone has to quit making assumptions that what exists today won't cope with the number of EVs on the road 10 years from now.

If you can stop at a station and recharge your EV to 100% in the same time you do for gas or diesel, will this discussion even matter? Because that's the goal and people are spending time and money to solve that.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You are comparing "old" information and applying it to the future.

Today, you can quick charge an EV to 80% in 15 minutes.

And people are working everyday to be better than that.

In the future you will see charging stations much more conveniently located.

Sure you can continue to come up with exceptions like living 300 miles from anything in New Mexico or Montana. But you have that today. If you are 300 miles from a gas station what do you do?

GM is investing in building 2700 charging stations.

In the future, if you are renting an apartment (another reason for EVs are bad) and enough people stop renting from people that don't provide charging stations and renting from people that do, customers will drive the change.

Everyone has to quit making assumptions that what exists today won't cope with the number of EVs on the road 10 years from now.

If you can stop at a station and recharge your EV to 100% in the same time you do for gas or diesel, will this discussion even matter? Because that's the goal and people are spending time and money to solve that.

There are nearly 2x that many gas stations in North Carolina alone

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

What about homes that have two or more EVs? Easy to see happening when both parents work . . . let alone there being a third or fourth driver in the house with a schedule that doesn't match anybody else's.


Norm

Why can't those people rotate their charging schedules? Or does each person drive their car from 100% to 0% every day?



Not saying this isn't a valid concern, but batteries really aren't that inefficient anymore and will only continue to improve in the future.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

GM is investing in building 2700 charging stations

There are about 170,000 gas stations in America.

Even in the most desolate areas of the country, you’re never more than less than a half tank of gas away from filling up 100% at any time, day or night, within 10 minutes.

[MR2Aaron]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I just had an interesting thought...

How much road noise is generated by the ICE vs just the wind it is pushing. How much quieter are roads going to be?

Quiet enough that EVs are actually being required to have an external speaker system that makes a humming noise, so pedestrians can hear them coming. It was a thing in Europe for a while, but it's apparently now a requirement here in the States, too.

New Teslas even let you program it with arbitrary sound effects, which seems like a cool feature initially, until you realize that that basically means that now every Tesla will be driving around blasting "Move bitch! Get out the way!" by Ludacris. Every. Single. One.

The default sound is sort of a Jetson's car noise.

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I did think that one out a bit, if you have "their charger" and it can charge in a reasonable time - it could auto switch when one is charged. Or maybe you could even have it switch once one is at a certain charge level, so 50%. As for 3 or 4 cars that are in my household. No clue, luckily I have a garage and could most likely overcome that situation with "extensions" but that would require some serious planning. Let alone the cost.

Many of the charge connectors on the market now can be programmed to operate as a swarm, sharing a single circuit. They'll charge one car at the full 40A (for a 50A circuit), or if you have two cars and two of the right chargers, they'll negotiate to charge each car at 20A. I think most residential electrical service could probably accommodate a second charge circuit, if you really needed three or four chargers. 20A is enough to charge a Model 3 all the back up to full from nearly empty in about 10 hours. Edit: Obviously, the way you're supposed to do this is to set the car to charge at night, and not just immediately when you plug it in.

Keeping 3 or 4 cars fully charged might be a minor hassle, but unless you're driving all of them A LOT, there's no reason you couldn't share two chargers on one circuit between them. I just plugged my Tesla in every night, and it would be ready to go in the morning, but I could have only done it once a week and still been fine the vast majority of the time.

The charging sounds a lot scarier than it actually is. There's an initial cost to install a charge circuit, that was about $1500 for me, but is less in a lot homes. You don't have to install a wall unit - most cars come with a cable that has the Tesla or J1772 connector on one end, and NEMA connector of some kind on the other.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

Quiet enough that EVs are actually being required to have an external speaker system that makes a humming noise, so pedestrians can hear them coming. It was a thing in Europe for a while, but it's apparently now a requirement here in the States, too.

New Teslas even let you program it with arbitrary sound effects, which seems like a cool feature initially, until you realize that that basically means that now every Tesla will be driving around blasting "Move bitch! Get out the way!" by Ludacris. Every. Single. One.

The default sound is sort of a Jetson's car noise.

All the more reason to swap a camed 502 into a Tesla

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

All the more reason to swap a camed 502 into a Tesla

And poof you have your cannonball run vehicle!

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

And poof you have your cannonball run vehicle!

Exactly!

(Although that might be TOO loud lol)

[ModernCamaroZ28Fan]

Originally Posted by MR2Aaron

I actually traded in a Tesla Model 3 for my 2021 Camaro.

I liked everything about the Tesla except for Tesla (the company) itself. Every single thing about dealing with them is a pain in the ass. They somehow managed to make buying the car a pain in the ass, despite having eliminated the dealer. Buying parts is a pain. Service is a pain. Also, most other Tesla owners' couldn't even manage to check their own tires without help, or relying on the TPMS. It wasn't much of an enthusiast community, in the sense most of us here probably think about it.

The icing on the cake is that, as several have mentioned, you don't really even own the car. They pushed out a software update around Christmas time that totally ruined the experience of driving the car for me, and refused to revert my car to the previous version. So I traded it in for the Un-Tesla.

I have a lot of optimism for the future of an EV Camaro, though. The fundamental driving experience in the Model 3 is excellent (BMW-like), so it's not like it isn't possible to make an electric sports car, and the big problem I had with Tesla is that they operate more like a company that sells fitness monitor wristbands than a car company. For all of their faults, I have faith that Ford and GM (in that order) will probably operate with a bit more discipline and restraint.

Unrelated, this Camaro is the shit. SOOOOO much fun!

I mean, I wouldn't keep my fingers crossed. I heard that GM and Microsoft are working together in the near future.