[Malbjey]

I think a point/question being lost in this thread is how much do people really use their Camaro?

If anything a car like this is a perfect candidate for going EV, because it's just a 'fun' car for many people. They don't use it for long road trips. They don't use it in the winter. Some people don't even use it for commuting.

So the whole point of 'electric charging takes too long' doesn't really matter for people in those categories. If you're barely driving the car, then you're not going to be spending so much time charging it every week.

As for the 'electric cars can't be fun' argument. I dunno about that. Do people say electric go-karts aren't fun? I actually prefer electric go karts over the gas powered ones, but that's just me. Plus I don't like smelling like a lawn mower after a few laps.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

...
As for the 'electric cars can't be fun' argument. I dunno about that. Do people say electric go-karts aren't fun? I actually prefer electric go karts over the gas powered ones, but that's just me. Plus I don't like smelling like a lawn mower after a few laps.

there are people who are grasping at gas engined powered cars like people who grasped at manual steering, like grasping at the carburetor... like people who grasped at manual transmissions... etc

there will always be people who grasp at things that run contrary to the evolution of something - whether simply to be against change or to retain some sort of elitism to feel special (because the thing being replaced was harder and potential drivers avoided it) or simply because of some niche aesthetic.

Electric cars could be made (and are sometimes made) far too fast and crazy for people to drive. There's a good chance these kinds of cars will get produced in the next 10 years.

But we know where all personal vehicles are headed. Gas or electric. They're going to be locked down. They're going to be tracked. They're going to be controlled. The more the driver doesn't drive the car the better.

It really can't go any other way. Not without something like teleportation that makes driving totally optional and so hardly anyone bothers to drive anymore. Safety demands it. low skill level demands it. Cost demands it. The environment demands it. The enthusiast demographic is not bigger than any one of those concerns, let alone all of them combined.


I'm just hoping GM grows a brain and gets some ev camaro's out early before the additional dystopian regulations hit that allows for customer modification (crate style motors etc) so that us enthusiast customers can ride under the radar in the future in vehicles that could circumvent those rules without being noticed. Wishful thinking, but would be better than having to get something older to remain street legal.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

I think a point/question being lost in this thread is how much do people really use their Camaro?

If anything a car like this is a perfect candidate for going EV, because it's just a 'fun' car for many people. They don't use it for long road trips. They don't use it in the winter. Some people don't even use it for commuting.

So the whole point of 'electric charging takes too long' doesn't really matter for people in those categories. If you're barely driving the car, then you're not going to be spending so much time charging it every week.

As for the 'electric cars can't be fun' argument. I dunno about that. Do people say electric go-karts aren't fun? I actually prefer electric go karts over the gas powered ones, but that's just me. Plus I don't like smelling like a lawn mower after a few laps.

I like fuel, I like they way they sound, it is classic!

[MR2Aaron]

Originally Posted by Hops

I think this a really big point. I'm a typical commuting driver doing 12000mi a year, getting gas once a week, spending 15min to do so since it's a little off my route to work. That 15min for 48weeks a year is 12hrs! In 3.5 years i would have spent an entire work week just getting gas!

Exactly. I mean it when I say that the home charging, where you just never have to stop for fuel, is the car's actual best feature. It's surprisingly liberating.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I like fuel, I like they way they sound, it is classic!

nothing a few speakers can't fix then.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

If anything a car like this is a perfect candidate for going EV, because it's just a 'fun' car for many people. They don't use it for long road trips. They don't use it in the winter. Some people don't even use it for commuting.

So the whole point of 'electric charging takes too long' doesn't really matter for people in those categories. If you're barely driving the car, then you're not going to be spending so much time charging it every week.

Seems to me that a 'fun' car that doesn't run up a lot of miles in a year would be the last place to try to squeeze any more emissions or fuel usage out of. If you're barely driving it, it's not making a lot of pollution or burning much gas.

An EV is even more of a 'slap it in D and go' vehicle than an ICE-powered car with an automatic.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

there are people who are grasping at gas engined powered cars like people who grasped at manual steering, like grasping at the carburetor... like people who grasped at manual transmissions... etc

there will always be people who grasp at things that run contrary to the evolution of something - whether simply to be against change or to retain some sort of elitism to feel special (because the thing being replaced was harder and potential drivers avoided it) or simply because of some niche aesthetic.

It's not that complicated.

When you know what you like, and why you like it that way . . . and then somebody else comes along and wants to take it away from you, what sort of reaction do you expect? Hint: submissive acceptance isn't always going to be it.

If you haven't been through it, you probably can't see it as clearly as if you already have. It's easy to disparage people who don't want to make changes in their lives as fast as you're willing to accept the same changes in yours. Difficult if not impossible to fully put yourself in their place and see things from their perspective.


Norm

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's not that complicated.

When you know what you like, and why you like it that way . . . and then somebody else comes along and wants to take it away from you, what sort of reaction do you expect? Hint: submissive acceptance isn't always going to be it.

If you haven't been through it, you probably can't see it as clearly as if you already have. It's easy to disparage people who don't want to make changes in their lives as fast as you're willing to accept the same changes in yours. Difficult if not impossible to fully put yourself in their place and see things from their perspective.


Norm

Nobody was disparaging anyone. Nothing was said negatively by me anyway.

I'm saying that the grasping onto things that are inevitably being evolved away from is futile. It's not going to stop it so rather than an acceptance, an adaptation is required. You're not playing in your own little sandbox, you're playing in everyone else's and so you ultimately dont have the power to choose when to accept change or not.. You can adapt to it because it's always going to happen or you can impotently rage in a futile resistance to something you can't control. No hobby is forever and some generation is always going to be on the cusp of the death of one and the rise of another.

Couple years ago i could fly my quad copters and planes all willy nilly. Now anything bigger than an indoor toy has to be registered with the FAA legally. And the locking down of that hobby is going to grow ..why? because it grew beyond the small enthusiast crowd and it exists in the "public space" ... So now we make things super tiny to be outside of the jurisdiction of the rules or we go get registered.

Such is the way of anything that gets too popular. Shift and move on ...hope the things you like dont involve too many other people if it can't be done on your own private property.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Nobody was disparaging anyone. Nothing was said negatively by me anyway.

I'm saying that the grasping onto things that are inevitably being evolved away from is futile. It's not going to stop it so rather than an acceptance, an adaptation is required. You're not playing in your own little sandbox, you're playing in everyone else's and so you ultimately dont have the power to choose when to accept change or not.. You can adapt to it because it's always going to happen or you can impotently rage in a futile resistance to something you can't control. No hobby is forever and some generation is always going to be on the cusp of the death of one and the rise of another.

Couple years ago i could fly my quad copters and planes all willy nilly. Now anything bigger than an indoor toy has to be registered with the FAA legally. And the locking down of that hobby is going to grow ..why? because it grew beyond the small enthusiast crowd and it exists in the "public space" ... So now we make things super tiny to be outside of the jurisdiction of the rules or we go get registered.

Such is the way of anything that gets too popular. Shift and move on ...hope the things you like dont involve too many other people if it can't be done on your own private property.

You really can’t see the forest for the trees, can you?

Freedom is hard for some, & cognitive dissidence easy, I guess.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

You really can’t see the forest for the trees, can you?

Freedom is hard for some, & cognitive dissonance easy, I guess.

When the things you like rely on someone else's choices to provide it for you, then yea, i guess that kind of freedom is hard for people to realize. Your happiness/freedom is tied to something outside of your control. Seems like a way to set yourself up for losing them

That's a very frustrating way to live, especially with the pace that technology and thus our society moves and will increasingly move in the foreseeable future.

[FarmerFran]

Personally I cannot wait to jump in a POD in my garage and get shuttled to my destination with no congestion, I can sleep or eat or read a book.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ummmm that’s not how it works.

Al should have told his boss, “FU and my career, I’m staying with Camaro”. “And to top it off you need to give me $500,000,000 to do a next gen version of a car selling 3rd in its class and dropping”. Or else what? He would quit? So going from what got him more money and visibility in his career to threatening to quit if they don’t approve a new Camaro?

Thanks for my chuckle today. Enjoyed that.

Pride and self respect are worth more than money to me.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I mean, it's definitely a cult classic, but how did DMC as a business end?

You shot yourself in the foot with this argument.

You ever heard the theory that if you give a car company to car guys to run, they'd be out of business in weeks? There is some truth behind that.

Sent from toaster or something

No I wasn’t talking about DMC I was talking about Pontiac.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

No I wasn’t talking about DMC I was talking about Pontiac.

Next time, not using dead car brands for your argument would be a great start.

Everyone has to compromise to survive nowadays. Even brands like Porsche and Lamborghini are making SUVs. It's better to lose some of the so-called "pride" that doesn't mean crap to workers you have to pay or stockholders than to go out of business and make no one happy.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Nobody was disparaging anyone. Nothing was said negatively by me anyway.

I'm saying that the grasping onto things that are inevitably being evolved away from is futile. It's not going to stop it so rather than an acceptance, an adaptation is required. You're not playing in your own little sandbox, you're playing in everyone else's and so you ultimately dont have the power to choose when to accept change or not.. You can adapt to it because it's always going to happen or you can impotently rage in a futile resistance to something you can't control. No hobby is forever and some generation is always going to be on the cusp of the death of one and the rise of another.

Couple years ago i could fly my quad copters and planes all willy nilly. Now anything bigger than an indoor toy has to be registered with the FAA legally. And the locking down of that hobby is going to grow ..why? because it grew beyond the small enthusiast crowd and it exists in the "public space" ... So now we make things super tiny to be outside of the jurisdiction of the rules or we go get registered.

Such is the way of anything that gets too popular. Shift and move on ...hope the things you like dont involve too many other people if it can't be done on your own private property.

The issue is now if that adaptation makes sense. Don't evolve just for the sake of evolution, evolve because it's better.

Lots of other posts and threads have covered it. If the said adaptation doesn't make any sense, there is no point to adapt to it.

I consider myself able to adapt to certain things but there are a few that I won't budge on. That's what happens when you have an actual personality and hobby rather than being an NPC.

If you don't feel strongly about a "hobby", chances are, it's not your hobby.