[UFDUB]

Has anyone come up with or found an in tank fueling solution? New pumps or drop-in fuel cell with surge tank? Seems like the gen5 zl1 has options, but we don’t?

[NEZL1]

Originally Posted by travislambert

I have a Magnuson 2650 and I can tell you from first-hand experience (with data), that you will never be able to keep that car cool or supplied with fuel without some serious supporting mods.

For a little background on my car... I have a stock lower, 90mm upper, big gulp, Nick Williams 103mm, cat deletes, and. JMS voltage booster. It dynoed at a little over 700 RWHP.

I'm having trouble keeping my temps down on hot days. My oil temps exceed 290F. My coolant temps are going above 240F. Unfortunately, there isn't much in terms of cooling upgrades available. Most of the products you see with "thicker cores" are snake oil. It just ends up increasing the pressure in front of the radiators instead of helping to cool. The increased mass of these units will help on the drag strip, but not the road course. I've actually been talking back and forth with the engineers at C&R Racing about a cooling solution. They told me straight up that their $1,200 radiator is no better than stock for road course.

If I could get the oil temps down, I think everything else would fall into place. In addition to C&R, I've talked to Improved Racing, Derale, Mishimoto, and others and nobody has a good kit available.

Last week I ordered a 95 mm pulley to drop the boost level and lower temps that way.

Fuel is another big problem for these cars. Sure there are plenty of "solutions", but basically none of them will work out of the box for road course use unless you keep things modest and go with a voltage booster only. Voltage booster will only get you to 700 RWHP reliably. Beyond that, you can run the engine lean.

The problem is we have a saddle style fuel tank. When you drop below 1/2 tank, and you go around a hard right turn, all of the fuel transfers to the left tank. Aside from a booster, none of the aftermarket solutions I've seen will keep up with fuel demand under this condition. The aux pumps like the junk DSX Tuning kit only taps the right side of the tank, so that's only a good option if you're eager to blow your engine. The Fore Innovations units delete the fuel bucket from the pump and therefore cannot provide constant pressure as the fuel sloshes around in the tank (because there is no buffer). Other units are pretty much variants of these solutions...designed for drag racing...not road racing. To my knowledge there are no reliable road racing lowside fuel solutions for more than 700 RWHP aside from a custom solution with a surge tank.

If you are serious about tracking the car in the heat, I think you'll need to dial back your build quite a bit to have a reliable setup.

You mentioned Oil and coolant temps, but how are your IATs on track?
While it's not how I choose to fix a solution Meth injection on paper fixes both the fueling and IAT issues.
Whether current options are truly designed for the rigors of track work I'm not sure and looking for feedback from others.


Also, I'm new here but I don't see anyone using something like the below to take some of the load off the factory cooling system and add an external oil cooler.
http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...ter-p-930.html


Seem to fix all the issues in theory, but who knows. Haven't seen anyone actually try it.
I'm waiting on a a 700whp car using meth and a heartbeat 2300 blower. No one seems to be able to answer my question on if it'll be usable on track so I'm going to be working out some of these same issues myself.

[radz28]

I remembered this last night: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...BoCpIsQAvD_BwE

Anyone try that for fuel pick-up issues? I swear I saw a demonstration of something like that a while ago and it was frickin cool. I don’t think the whole thing had to be submerged to pretty much pull every drop from the demonstration-tank.

[F419sr1]

Originally Posted by radz28

I remembered this last night: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...BoCpIsQAvD_BwE

Anyone try that for fuel pick-up issues? I swear I saw a demonstration of something like that a while ago and it was frickin cool. I don’t think the whole thing had to be submerged to pretty much pull every drop from the demonstration-tank.

I ask about these and was told the fuel gauge won’t work with them

[juice3]

Sub

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by F419sr1

I ask about these and was told the fuel gauge won’t work with them

Would only be a problem if it was installed improperly and interfered with gauge float movement. Done right it will cause no issues, I had one in another car.

[F419sr1]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

Would only be a problem if it was installed improperly and interfered with gauge float movement. Done right it will cause no issues, I had one in another car.

Maybe it has to do with the fuel system installed. Fore innovation Says it won’t work with theirs.

[EDFHOBBIES]

You have to figure what you want your power level to be at for road course.

For a road course car I hear all bad advice. For instance if you have you rwhp goal set at 750 if you had the heads ported you might be able to drop boost by 1 or 2 psi and meet your hp goal. you will have less heat generated any and all the steps to make the most hp with the least boost is what you should aim for. Even port the maggie that will save another few psi. less psi less heat.

As far as a cam nothings changed there no high ramping stuff or large lift so its easier on the valve train. lose all the AFM/DOD crap maybe use the LT5 ZR1 camshaft, Morel or Johnson lifters and good set of pushrods. also a good exhaust valve at least.

I would even look at the 112mm snout and TB to pair with the a 5 inch intake remember more flow equals less psi is the key.

Top of the line coating for the headers and swap out the heat exchagers, add some capacity, and maybe run the VP racing coolant in the I/C syatem.


Efficient power and combating heat are top priority.


Just think if you got tired of road racing and wanted to turn it up you are set to make the most possible all ready!

[Badmojo]

ZLBlue,



You may want to look at what "R Stands For Race" has done with their Super Lap Battle time attack car. I don't have first-hand experience, but it appears to be a maximum effort TT car with an aftermarket supercharger.


https://www.youtube.com/user/carcy007

Originally Posted by ZLBlue

I'm happy to finally have the chance to start the Magnuson 2650 build soon on my ZL1. With Oil Pump being replaced with the revised part at the same garage I'm doing my build, I decided the engine might as well come out since both pulleys are being changed.

I was juggling the idea of having the build paired with a Cam only, but some camaro buddies in my community suggested since the engine is coming out, might as well do Ported heads due to the labor.

Since this is going to be a car used for Road Racing (every weekend possibly) and Time Attack events with rare use on the street with some long distance drive rallies, is it worthwhile to have a Cam and Ported heads added in? Or just the Cam?

The car will be in Dubai so there's always constant hot weather in most seasons but bad humidity in winter time. Fuel is another issue as I can run only on 93 due to availability.

Edit for list of mods:

- 2650 Magnuson Blower with 80mm upper
- 1 7/8 ARH headers (catless)
- ATI Harmonic balancer/ Lower pulley
- Ron Davis Heat Exchanger
- Stage II Cam package
- Nick Williams 103mm TB
- Big Gulp RotoFab intake (Oiled)
- Elite engineering oil catch can
- JMS Fuel Pump Voltage Booster V2
- Taylor spark plug wires and NGK TR7IX Iridium spark plugs
- Unlocked TCM
- Revised GM Oil Pump and new seals/gaskets.

[kramard]

I'm watching a 2650 struggle locally. Frying plug wires, diff cant handle the power, melted harness wires throughout the car etc. Heat from the headers appears to be a huge issue but heat throughout the entire exhaust appears to be a problem. His cats were also destroyed - maybe even when they dyno tuned.

The only way I'd consider a project like this for the track is going with a shop that can show you a reference that's doing what you're looking for in a track setting. Im not saying dont do it. Im saying make sure you find the right shop to help you work through all the problems. There are more then a few. Its not as simple as just solving fueling.

Note: my stock zl1 1le w/ just a7s was a second faster then the 2650. He had effectively one lap for two days.

[juice3]

Originally Posted by kramard

I'm watching a 2650 struggle locally. Frying plug wires, diff cant handle the power, melted harness wires throughout the car etc. Heat from the headers appears to be a huge issue but heat throughout the entire exhaust appears to be a problem. His cats were also destroyed - maybe even when they dyno tuned.

The only way I'd consider a project like this for the track is going with a shop that can show you a reference that's doing what you're looking for in a track setting. Im not saying dont do it. Im saying make sure you find the right shop to help you work through all the problems. There are more then a few. Its not as simple as just solving fueling.

Note: my stock zl1 1le w/ just a7s was a second faster then the 2650. He had effectively one lap for two days.

Yup! Shite sucks


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[Juiced1]

Originally Posted by kramard

I'm watching a 2650 struggle locally. Frying plug wires, diff cant handle the power, melted harness wires throughout the car etc. Heat from the headers appears to be a huge issue but heat throughout the entire exhaust appears to be a problem. His cats were also destroyed - maybe even when they dyno tuned.

The only way I'd consider a project like this for the track is going with a shop that can show you a reference that's doing what you're looking for in a track setting. Im not saying dont do it. Im saying make sure you find the right shop to help you work through all the problems. There are more then a few. Its not as simple as just solving fueling.

Note: my stock zl1 1le w/ just a7s was a second faster then the 2650. He had effectively one lap for two days.

Taking extra precaution is a big deal for a track car. The headers should be ceramic coated and wrapped. The wiring harnesses should also be heat shielded. You learn this stuff quick as the track will find the weaknesses very quickly. The more power you put down the quicker you find them. I think the power levels the 2650 are capable and meant for are a bit to extreme for most tracks.

[juice3]

They are coated, not wrapped. Harness is wrapped however the high egt took out my o2 extension harnesses already.


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[NEZL1]

Literally had zero issues so far with my magnuson heartbeat setup with longtubes.
The 2650 has even larger cooling bricks, so maybe I'm lucky.

But my car was built in AZ and tracked in AZ heat so here in New England it seems to be no problem whatsoever for a 20 min session.