[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I love my SS 1LE and what GM did with the Camaro, but your comment is purely on performance numbers.

There is SOOO much more that makes a Porsche a Porsche. The devil is in the details & service.

I agree, I'd take a 993/991/992 Porsche TT all day over my ZLE. I've driven a 991 on on track the the Porsche Experience Center in LA and it was car perfection. The 992 Turbo S has 640 HP.

The PDK and launch control ability alone is unreal, you get perfect 0-60 in ~2.8 sec launches all day no overheat. And interior is beautiful. The only negative is the weight, ever since the 993 they lost track of this but it's still a beast that would be hard to beat on track, it's easy to drive fast and keep pointing straight power sliding out of corners with nice 4 wheel drifts, so much grip.

I wish they made a lightweight AWD version that didnt cost an extra $100K+ (not a RWD GT2 RS), that's my dream car since I was a little kid. Like an M3 CSL, just use fabric instead of leather, no power seats or sunroof, basic sound with 4 speakers, etc. A daily for me so keep the AC.

[ZRacerLE]

If you eliminate the American brands, it seems like Porsche would be the next in line for performance bargain?

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

If you eliminate the American brands, it seems like Porsche would be the next in line for performance bargain?

I would think so.

They are typically cheaper than Ferrari, Lambo, Mc Claran.

They are raved about by auto journalists and reviewers alike for a reason. They also hold their value better than most, so that tells you something.

BMW has lost its way and Audi (san R8, which is most expensive than Porsche) are great street cars, but don't have the track dynamics in anything they offer.

Maybe Lotus, but the Evora GT410 is more a track toy (like an Ariel Atom) rather than a complete package car.

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I would think so.

They are typically cheaper than Ferrari, Lambo, Mc Claran.

They are raved about by auto journalists and reviewers alike for a reason. They also hold their value better than most, so that tells you something.

BMW has lost its way and Audi (san R8, which is most expensive than Porsche) are great street cars, but don't have the track dynamics in anything they offer.

Maybe Lotus, but the Evora GT410 is more a track toy (like an Ariel Atom) rather than a complete package car.

I'm surprised a former F80 owner would say Porsche for best value, I'd have to say the F80 M3/M4 would be next in terms of cost/value for a high-power performance car. Guys at tracks her in CA are putting down very fast times in these once they're properly dialed in with alignment and tires. The new M3 should be impressive, I may get one.

After that I'd choose the GT-R, even without mods a 2020 GT-R is very fast for $113k and the ones with basic mods (E85/tune) and excellent driver still often do fastest laps of the day. I've seen them crush great drivers in GT3 RS, the passing speed of a modded GT-R on straights is door-blowing.

Porsches have become VERY expensive, a 911 TT now starts at $171K. I couldn't justify that kind of money vs. investing.

On the other hand a 718 GTS 4.0 is an amazing, light and reliable mid engine track weapon starting at $87k, but it only has 394 HP so I don't think it qualifies for the category being discussed here.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

I'm surprised a former F80 owner would say Porsche for best value, I'd have to say the F80 M3/M4 would be next in terms of cost/value for a high-power performance car. Guys at tracks her in CA are putting down very fast times in these once they're properly dialed in with alignment and tires. The new M3 should be impressive, I may get one.

After that I'd choose the GT-R, even without mods a 2020 GT-R is very fast for $113k and the ones with basic mods (E85/tune) and excellent driver still often do fastest laps of the day. I've seen them crush great drivers in GT3 RS, the passing speed of a modded GT-R on straights is door-blowing.

Porsches have become VERY expensive, a 911 TT now starts at $171K. I couldn't justify that kind of money vs. investing.

On the other hand a 718 GTS 4.0 is an amazing, light and reliable mid engine track weapon starting at $87k, but it only has 394 HP so I don't think it qualifies for the category being discussed here.

If you read any of my previous posts talking about my F80 experience, you would know I am NOT a fan and was very disappointed in my whole F80 ownership.

The damping sucked (especially on the rebound stroke), the rear-end was unstable and all over the place, the brakes would shimmy (5 repair attempts), the traction/stability control system was way over zealous and worked against you instead of with you, it has traction issues (even with extreme performance rated tires), all 4 door seals creaked when going over driveways or speed bumps...

I could go on and on.

I am NOT a BMW fan

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

If you read any of my previous posts talking about my F80 experience, you would know I am NOT a fan and was very disappointed in my whole F80 ownership.

The damping sucked (especially on the rebound stroke), the rear-end was unstable and all over the place, the brakes would shimmy (5 repair attempts), the traction/stability control system was way over zealous and worked against you instead of with you, it has traction issues (even with extreme performance rated tires), all 4 door seals creaked when going over driveways or speed bumps...

I could go on and on.

I am NOT a BMW fan

I haven’t driven an F80, I’ve heard complaints but don’t know much. It sounds like you got a bad one, or the fast ones I’ve seen have had a lot of work done to dial them in.

I’ve witnessed many fast laps from F80s at Buttonwillow and Auto Club Speedway. One guy with a highly modded M4 does crazy fast laps at ACS, 1:42 I think.

I had an SMG E46 M3 back from 2002-2005, loved that car. Those M3s in stock form still do fast laps beating new high performance cars, which is a testament to the capability, balance and longevity of performance. Many E92s are still killing it too.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

If you eliminate the American brands, it seems like Porsche would be the next in line for performance bargain?

I wouldn't call a 911tt a bargain, their profit margins are among the largest in the industry. They probably build them for $75k and the rest is gravy