[ud03803]

Hey guys, looking for some info from the experts. I know dyno numbers are relative and to be used as a tuning tool. But when they are dramatically different, it begs a question or 2. If you look at the video below, you see this 2017 Camaro making 580whp. This I do not understand!

He basically had a big cam, ported MSD intake, 95mm tb, flex fuel and cai. My combination only made 506whp on a Dynojet yesterday(89 degrees, 60% humidity and the mods are below. Just trying to understand why it's so low comparatively and what I can do to my setup to improve it. I know I am losing some power with the ported stock tb compared to a ported 95mm and his MSD port is probably better than mine - but 75hp worth??

Mine - Stock short block, CNC ported 12:1 heads, LS7 lifters, MSD intake (I port matched it), Tony Mamo ported stock tb, K&N CAI, Kooks 1 7/8 headers, no cats, stock exhaust pipes back to an unknown Muffler (maybe magaflow), LT4 HPFP, LT4 injectors, LT4 in-tank pump, DOD delete, 0 degree phaser. Cam specs below

Hellion Custom
117.1 lobe sep
Duration: I=226.3
E=242
Lift: I=0.640
E=0.622

It has been tuned by 2 different shops all being with 10hp or so of each other with a best Dyno pull of 520whp. I can't get my head around how I am 75whp off from his number. I do have nitrous and on the 100 shot I make 596whp. Any insight or suggestions on chnages to my setup for NA will be much appreciated. Thank you!

[JSH]

Yea, my '20 made 574/597 stock and 720/692 mod'd

[Jhunsberger]

For another comparison RPM just did a 18 SS Auto with LTH catless, RPM cam package, Texas Speed PRC heads, MSD intake, roto-fab, and NW 103 TB = 513/449.

https://youtu.be/EWDhzA1S104

[s346k]

different dyno, different results yada yada. do you have a baseline on that same dyno?

kind of related: do you have a dynograph? did you flycut?

where are the 110 lsa camshafts? ptv issues?

[ud03803]

Originally Posted by Jhunsberger

For another comparison RPM just did a 18 SS Auto with LTH catless, RPM cam package, Texas Speed PRC heads, MSD intake, roto-fab, and NW 103 TB = 513/449.

https://youtu.be/EWDhzA1S104

Yeah, this is a similar setup than mine. Differences would be the CAI brand, 2" headers vs. my 1 7/8, and 103mm tb vs my ported stocker. These numbers are much closer and make sense. That 580 NA video makes no sense to me! lol

[Matos1LE]

For you to have any useful information here, you would have to run your car and his, back to back on the same dyno on the same day. For all we know, your car might dyno the same or higher in that situation. There are way too many variables with regard to dyno, weather, and vehicle setup to draw a comparison by what you have. Also, you should probably get a bigger TB.

[KingLT1]

Not all parts are created equal. You are not using Pray's heads, cam, or MSD. Pray routinely backs those numbers up with that combination of parts.

For starters the cam specs look odd for NA. Looks like a blower grind. Also you need a Ported 95mm tb minimum. I would also ditch the K&N for a Rotofab. If you want to make Pray power then use Pray's combination of parts.

There are some other variables too.

A8 vs M6. A8 shows 20whp difference between 5th and 6th gear pulls. M6 dynos 10 whp higher or so over a A8 in 6th.

Drag radials dyno lower then street tires.

Tuner...just because you had it tuned twice doesn't mean much unless it was tuned by one of the few competent Gen 5 LTx tuners across the country.

And likely one of the biggest factors...Different dynos. All dynos read different even with SAE correction. I wouldn't expect to see a 75whp difference on 2 different dyno jets between the same combination but I could see there being a 20whp difference easily.

All that being said if you addressed some of these things above, I wouldn't be surprised if your combination hits at least 550whp.

[LT1ornothing]

Originally Posted by ud03803

Yeah, this is a similar setup than mine. Differences would be the CAI brand, 2" headers vs. my 1 7/8, and 103mm tb vs my ported stocker. These numbers are much closer and make sense. That 580 NA video makes no sense to me! lol

Your car is automatic, that red camaro in Pray's video is an M6, therefore it loses less power to the wheels than your car. Add to that the better intake manifold than yours plus the other little things that the red Pray camaro has AND that Pray puts together extremely complementary ported NA parts with literally years of trail and error in what combinations squeeze the most NA and work best together. Take all those factors into account and maybe a possibly cooler day on the red camaro dyno and it's pretty easy to see why the red camaro dynos higher.

[ud03803]

Originally Posted by s346k

different dyno, different results yada yada. do you have a baseline on that same dyno?

kind of related: do you have a dynograph? did you flycut?

where are the 110 lsa camshafts? ptv issues?

Unfortunately, no I don't have a baseline with this particular dyno. But I do now and can see how future mods respond. The original dyno it was tested on when it was built is 2.5 hours away vs. this one, which is 20 minutes. lol Dyno attached. For some reason he didn't include the 506 run, which was done in 6th gear. Most runs were done in 4th gear and one in 5th. Not sure why he didn't want to do 1:1 gear runs but I have seen many shops only doing 4th - maybe for MPH safety purposes? The 596 was on a ~100-125 shot.

Attached is RPM Dyno from early this year making 519. Also, dyno from yesterday. Crazy thing is between dyno runs, I ported the MSD and deleted cats. It should have picked up power - but the whole different dyno issue, I know... lol

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Jhunsberger

For another comparison RPM just did a 18 SS Auto with LTH catless, RPM cam package, Texas Speed PRC heads, MSD intake, roto-fab, and NW 103 TB = 513/449.

https://youtu.be/EWDhzA1S104

Note, This was a 5th gear pull, Nitto 555r 2 drag radial, on 93 pump.

Now take the same combo and do a 6th gear pull (1:1 for A8), Street tire, E85, watch the same combo make another 50+ whp.

[Jhunsberger]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Note, This was a 5th gear pull, Nitto 555r 2 drag radial, on 93 pump.

Now take the same combo and do a 6th gear pull (1:1 for A8), Street tire, E85, watch the same combo make another 50+ whp.

True that King

[ud03803]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Note, This was a 5th gear pull, Nitto 555r 2 drag radial, on 93 pump.

Now take the same combo and do a 6th gear pull (1:1 for A8), Street tire, E85, watch the same combo make another 50+ whp.

You make a very good point. In fact, the tuner actually said, "look at that weird torque curve(going up and down), I bet it's spinning the tires on the dyno".I didn't know this could happen lol

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ud03803

Hey guys, looking for some info from the experts. I know dyno numbers are relative and to be used as a tuning tool. But when they are dramatically different, it begs a question or 2. If you look at the video below, you see this 2017 Camaro making 580whp. This I do not understand!

He basically had a big cam, ported MSD intake, 95mm tb, flex fuel and cai. My combination only made 506whp on a Dynojet yesterday(89 degrees, 60% humidity and the mods are below. Just trying to understand why it's so low comparatively and what I can do to my setup to improve it. I know I am losing some power with the ported stock tb compared to a ported 95mm and his MSD port is probably better than mine - but 75hp worth??

Mine - Stock short block, CNC ported 12:1 heads, LS7 lifters, MSD intake (I port matched it), Tony Mamo ported stock tb, K&N CAI, Kooks 1 7/8 headers, no cats, stock exhaust pipes back to an unknown Muffler (maybe magaflow), LT4 HPFP, LT4 injectors, LT4 in-tank pump, DOD delete, 0 degree phaser. Cam specs below

Hellion Custom
117.1 lobe sep
Duration: I=226.3
E=242
Lift: I=0.640
E=0.622

It has been tuned by 2 different shops all being with 10hp or so of each other with a best Dyno pull of 520whp. I can't get my head around how I am 75whp off from his number. I do have nitrous and on the 100 shot I make 596whp. Any insight or suggestions on chnages to my setup for NA will be much appreciated. Thank you!

Like you said dyno's are relative and not exact comparisons... but a discrepancy like that can probably be attributed to the cam specs, 2" headers vs 1 7/8", E85 (especially on something higher compression), TB size, and the MSD port job... as well as obviously the tuner.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Note, This was a 5th gear pull, Nitto 555r 2 drag radial, on 93 pump.

Now take the same combo and do a 6th gear pull (1:1 for A8), Street tire, E85, watch the same combo make another 50+ whp.

This. E85 would go a long way for OPs car as well imo, especially with a 12:1 CR.