[ZX-10R]

Drove a manual for 18 years (modded FD RX-7, ~400 rwhp) - still love them *if* it's a good, hard shifting trans you can hammer through the gears with, but I'm very picky and quite frankly most are disappointing. The Camaro is ok. GT3 is very good, S2000 is also above average but the engine is so gutless

Prefer a race (dogbox style) trans, synchros are a compromise.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...sh-vs-dog-box/

[CW3SF]

The OP specifically asked about around town. If you can’t launch it without bogging around town you need more practice or you just aren’t capable of getting it. This car was designed for a road course and has computer aided no lift shift capability that most don’t know how to use. I’ve asked for definitive video proof showing the A10 reducing times on the road course. *Crickets****

[ZX-10R]

You already saw it, the C&D 2019 Lightning Lap, and 0.7 sec is not a small gap. For an amateur racer the gap is probably even more

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/

With his pointers—it was a lot of him diplomatically telling us to stop being wusses and go faster in the Climbing Esses—we pushed the automatic-equipped 1LE to a 2:45.0 lap, 0.7 second quicker than the manual's best run.

A supercharged V-8 with 650 horsepower and torque means the Camaro really doesn't need 10 gears, but the shifts are so quick and the programming is so spot on that it picks the perfect gear while you're concentrating on braking. There's no need to go to the paddles.

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

You already saw it, the C&D 2019 Lightning Lap, and 0.7 sec is not a small gap. For an amateur racer the gap is probably even more

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/

With his pointers—it was a lot of him diplomatically telling us to stop being wusses and go faster in the Climbing Esses—we pushed the automatic-equipped 1LE to a 2:45.0 lap, 0.7 second quicker than the manual's best run.

A supercharged V-8 with 650 horsepower and torque means the Camaro really doesn't need 10 gears, but the shifts are so quick and the programming is so spot on that it picks the perfect gear while you're concentrating on braking. There's no need to go to the paddles.

You already saw it, Randy Pobst went fast in the Manual. Follow link.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...ght=A10+manual

There are other example on this forum and YouTube that show no clear sizable advantage.

[CW3SF]

And for the record, I am not suggesting that any manual can shift faster than any auto. I’m simply saying that the advantage is so small that a good manual driver who knows how to no lift shift and knows how to road race can essentially negate any or most of that advantage. And I think the data proves that point.

[ZX-10R]

The main argument for a manual on a roadcourse imo is reliability (plus I like being able to completely drain the fluid) but again, to keep up with modern autos you need an exceptional "rifle bolt", ultra-short-shift dogbox style manual, and unfortunately the manufacturers aren't interested in developing that for a street car (they aren't cheap). Maybe Lotus will do it, who knows

The fact that the A10 is able to beat a manual on a roadcourse by *any* margin is incredible to me, that was impossible even 5-6 years ago (8 speed had many issues) - they have come a long way and GM/Ford deserves props for developing such a great auto trans that seems to be reliable so far

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

The main argument for a manual on a roadcourse imo is reliability (plus I like being able to completely drain the fluid) but again, to keep up with modern autos you need an exceptional "rifle bolt", ultra-short-shift dogbox style manual, and unfortunately the manufacturers aren't interested in developing that for a street car (they aren't cheap). Maybe Lotus will do it, who knows

The fact that the A10 is able to beat a manual on a roadcourse by *any* margin is incredible to me, that was impossible even 5-6 years ago (8 speed had many issues) - they have come a long way and GM/Ford deserves props for developing such a great auto trans that seems to be reliable so far

I would agree although there have been a few threads on here with people having issues with A10 on road course.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by rdrfronty

Just now did a couple impromptu take off clips.
No bog on a good hard take off on street tires.

https://youtu.be/GPzDlOttouU

https://youtu.be/zYCL2_fgT2A

LOL, you are TUNED!! non tuned cars don't leave like that....
YES, you can tune out the bog but the warranty is toast even on a stock car.

[Z/Camaro]

I think everyone is missing what the OP is saying. He wants to know if when driving on the street and wanting to have fun in the car if it's hard to put the power down. As a Z06 owner I know exactly what he means because I daily my car and can't put the power down. It's a M7 and even when its 110 plus, with hot tires 1st and 2nd will have you spinning and swaying. Even rolling at let's say 25mph, in 2nd gear, if I put my foot down the tires will spin and back end will sway to the point that there is no confidence. So basically you can only get on it on the fwy. So that's what the OP is talking about.

To the OP, I only test drove a regular ZL1 manual. From what I remember it was better than my Z06 but felt slower. The auto, which my ex owned so I got more seat time, was awesome. It spun the tires at full throttle but very predictable and stable compared to the Z06. For a daily driver around town the auto ZL1 is the way to go. For a fwy commuter I'd take the Z06. I'm currently waiting on my C8 to be done, even though it's going to be slower than my Z06 I can't wait to get back in a car with some traction

[ZX-10R]

The A8 is junk compared to the A10 - also not sure why you're comparing vette to ZL1, there are similarities sure but it's a different car

[Z/Camaro]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

The A8 is junk compared to the A10 - also not sure why you're comparing vette to ZL1, there are similarities sure but it's a different car

Because OP mentioned the Z06 as an example in his initial post

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by Z/Camaro

I think everyone is missing what the OP is saying. He wants to know if when driving on the street and wanting to have fun in the car if it's hard to put the power down. As a Z06 owner I know exactly what he means because I daily my car and can't put the power down. It's a M7 and even when its 110 plus, with hot tires 1st and 2nd will have you spinning and swaying. Even rolling at let's say 25mph, in 2nd gear, if I put my foot down the tires will spin and back end will sway to the point that there is no confidence. So basically you can only get on it on the fwy. So that's what the OP is talking about.

To the OP, I only test drove a regular ZL1 manual. From what I remember it was better than my Z06 but felt slower. The auto, which my ex owned so I got more seat time, was awesome. It spun the tires at full throttle but very predictable and stable compared to the Z06. For a daily driver around town the auto ZL1 is the way to go. For a fwy commuter I'd take the Z06. I'm currently waiting on my C8 to be done, even though it's going to be slower than my Z06 I can't wait to get back in a car with some traction

That’s what I’ve heard from other Z06 manual and some ZL1 manual owners too - on the track, the car is a blast, but around town it’s a pain to drive. I had a C8 ordered too, but cancelled it when all the quality and engineering problems started showing up. Maybe in a couple of years...I had no problems with my late-production C5 Z06 or C6 with Z51.

[TheRealJA105]

First of all, the thread title is dumb. No one is launching around town constantly, OP is clearly just talking about normal driveability and taking off with the clutch. A launch is a launch, just like you are on a drag strip and the M6 bog has been confirmed and acknowledged by Al O.

Originally Posted by CW3SF

The OP specifically asked about around town. If you can’t launch it without bogging around town you need more practice or you just aren’t capable of getting it. This car was designed for a road course and has computer aided no lift shift capability that most don’t know how to use. I’ve asked for definitive video proof showing the A10 reducing times on the road course. *Crickets****

Definitive video blah blah blah, watch and see how this works. I want definitive video of you in an A10 on the road course. Bet you pinkslips () you're faster.

Originally Posted by CW3SF

You already saw it, Randy Pobst went fast in the Manual. Follow link.
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...ght=A10+manual
There are other example on this forum and YouTube that show no clear sizable advantage.

No need to cover this again, but we all know Randy went faster (yes barely) in the auto after they adjusted the tire pressure.

Originally Posted by CW3SF

And for the record, I am not suggesting that any manual can shift faster than any auto. I’m simply saying that the advantage is so small that a good manual driver who knows how to no lift shift and knows how to road race can essentially negate any or most of that advantage. And I think the data proves that point.

The fact that the auto is just plain old faster disproves your theory. The autos are too damn good now. Same exact car and being faster = faster lap times with no other variables, it's physics.

Manuals are pretty much just for more fun and more reliability now. Oh and the old school man card, but while many people can't drive stick I think a lot of manual guys like myself have purchased a modern auto, so the you can't drive a manual doesn't hold a candle in that argument.

Yes, I want another manual, but i have no doubt it will be a little slower on the road course, which is hard to accept for Time Trials.

[Z/Camaro]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

That’s what I’ve heard from other Z06 manual and some ZL1 manual owners too - on the track, the car is a blast, but around town it’s a pain to drive. I had a C8 ordered too, but cancelled it when all the quality and engineering problems started showing up. Maybe in a couple of years...I had no problems with my late-production C5 Z06 or C6 with Z51.

Yeah, my C6 grand sport was easy to control and hoon around in. Yeah it was slower but in some ways I miss it just for the ease of control it had vs the C7 Z06. The Z06 is the first car I've owned where I've said the car has too much power for what it is used for. I'm sure for track guys or bragging rights the standard 650 isn't enough but for what I use it for it's too much to have fun in safely. I felt the ZL1 was more confident inspiring and what I probably should have gotten back then instead. Not that I don't enjoy my Z06, it's a bad ass car, I just wish I could use 100% of it without worrying about traction problems. I didn't feel that way with the ZL1 if that helps at all