[cmitchell17]

I don't mean to bash anyone but it does seem like someone like Katech is actually contracted with OEMs and GM and their race programs, and along with that comes more money but more specifically more knowledgeable people and engineering. No offense but it seem to me someone like TSP is just a bunch of kids and people working with non-engineering backgrounds. Not to say that's a real bad thing.

GM and OEMs have the money to do large quality control operations and complex failure mode analysis and engineer and optimize it as a system. Does shops like TSP do the same? It really doesn't look like it to me, I believe I saw videos were it looks like they do have a engine dyno, but how much testing do they really? Its its not so much testing, how much analytical design do they even do before or in parallel, yes I think just throwing things together and testing and seeing what works does work, but a engineered and thought out approach seems better.

[oldman]

Most vendors including Katech will sell you substandard lifters.

[6spdhyperblue]

I wouldn’t assume Katech has engineers working on the engines or parts available.

Compcams has their own spinTron too.

[Puddin]

I think most of the big cam manufacturers use spintrons.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I wouldn’t assume Katech has engineers working on the engines or parts available.

Compcams has their own spinTron too.

So, what would you say their engineers are working on then...?

[KingLT1]

The difference between TSP and GM is TSP engineers packages that last 10-20k miles, where GM engineers stuff to last 200+ K miles. You don't hear many complaints about TSP or other similar vendors because most that do Cam swaps and more extreme modifications likely will not put 20k miles on the setup during the ownership period.

Now there will always be some longevity lost as we increase power but these "base" Cam kits I see being sold make me cringe. LS7 lifters (which is what comes standard in most companies kits) will not hold up very long to high lift, aggressive lobes, paired with heavy dual valve springs. I have said this numerous times here...If you came from the LS world and paid attention it was pretty clear that Cam manufacturers like TSP started reducing the lobe lift and intensity to increase longevity and valve train stability which resulted in the engine actually making a little more power....so it was a win win.

I am not sure why some of the Cam manufacturers went to .640 lift cams on the LT stuff for their "Base" kits. Being the LT uses the exact same valve train components as LS they suffer from the same issues. For one Stock OEM LS/LT rocker arms are not a optimal to use above .600 lift. Being a slider type arm, once you get around .630 lift they start to side load the valve tip and it's hard on the guides. However below that lift they work great and are very light over the tip of the valve.

The good news is there are options out there to build a cam setup with higher lift and lobe intensity but you need to upgrade a few parts to maximize longevity. Upgrade the Rocker arms(TSP roller which will require different length pushrods), lifters(Johnson 2110), and valve springs(Pac 120X series). That will add about another 1000.00 to the cam kit but it is worth it in the end imo.

I do believe Katech builds stuff with longevity in mind. They are like a High Performance OEM company similar to what Lingenfelter Engineering use to be. They don't sell budget oriented kits to net more sales. They build packages that are tested and proven. The reason why the masses buy TSP packages is because of the cost. Most are narrow minded and only look at one metric which is making more power for the least amount of money.

[Boost Creep]

...which is why I've stuck to bolt-ons for the past several cars.

I love to drive and will put 12,000 mi or more a year on my weekend car, and I keep cars several years, 100,000 miles is nothing.

The 1LE is over 30,000 in a little over two years.

[Purplt1]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The difference between TSP and GM is TSP engineers packages that last 10-20k miles, where GM engineers stuff to last 200+ K miles. You don't hear many complaints about TSP or other similar vendors because most that do Cam swaps and more extreme modifications likely will not put 20k miles on the setup during the ownership period.

Now there will always be some longevity lost as we increase power but these "base" Cam kits I see being sold make me cringe. LS7 lifters (which is what comes standard in most companies kits) will not hold up very long to high lift, aggressive lobes, paired with heavy dual valve springs. I have said this numerous times here...If you came from the LS world and paid attention it was pretty clear that Cam manufacturers like TSP started reducing the lobe lift and intensity to increase longevity and valve train stability which resulted in the engine actually making a little more power....so it was a win win.

I am not sure why some of the Cam manufacturers went to .640 lift cams on the LT stuff for their "Base" kits. Being the LT uses the exact same valve train components as LS they suffer from the same issues. For one Stock OEM LS/LT rocker arms are not a optimal to use above .600 lift. Being a slider type arm, once you get around .630 lift they start to side load the valve tip and it's hard on the guides. However below that lift they work great and are very light over the tip of the valve.

The good news is there are options out there to build a cam setup with higher lift and lobe intensity but you need to upgrade a few parts to maximize longevity. Upgrade the Rocker arms(TSP roller which will require different length pushrods), lifters(Johnson 2110), and valve springs(Pac 120X series). That will add about another 1000.00 to the cam kit but it is worth it in the end imo.

I do believe Katech builds stuff with longevity in mind. They are like a High Performance OEM company similar to what Lingenfelter Engineering use to be. They don't sell budget oriented kits to net more sales. They build packages that are tested and proven. The reason why the masses buy TSP packages is because of the cost. Most are narrow minded and only look at one metric which is making more power for the least amount of money.

So what usually goes bad around 10-20k miles? I'm currently getting ready to install my tsp vvt-2 kit and tsp heads. I'm just using the ls7 lifter and upgraded to the Che trunnions.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

The saying engineers have slow cars holds true.

One of my favorite sayings.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Purplt1

So what usually goes bad around 10-20k miles? I'm currently getting ready to install my tsp vvt-2 kit and tsp heads. I'm just using the ls7 lifter and upgraded to the Che trunnions.

Lifters...the LS7 were not designed for the setup you are going to put them in. They were designed around very mild lobes, titanium valves, and light springs. Will they work, yes..but the life you get out of them will depend on how long the engine spends above 6k rpm. I wouldn't run them with a cam that requires 7k rpm and dual valve springs. Will the vendor you bought them from say they are fine...sure will, but I can pull up page after page of LS7 lifter failures that show otherwise.

[Purplt1]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Lifters...the LS7 were not designed for the setup you are going to put them in. They were designed around very mild lobes, titanium valves, and light springs. Will they work, yes..but the life you get out of them will depend on how long the engine spends above 6k rpm. I wouldn't run them with a cam that requires 7k rpm and dual valve springs. Will the vendor you bought them from say they are fine...sure will, but I can pull up page after page of LS7 lifter failures that show otherwise.

Thanks for the info . I came from a coyote so I don't know a whole lot about the ls/lt engines. I daily my car about 12 -15k miles a year but looks like I should invest in some better lifters although I don't plan on hitting 6-7k rpm much.

[Redlinez]

I wonder if some of these shops would steer you correctly if you tell them your vehicle is daily driven. Tons of guys here only drive them on occasion and race them. In those cases, the more aggressive set ups may not matter as much. I remember in my LS1 days my guy constantly recommended 224-228 600 lift cams for a reason. I went with a Futral 232/234 63x/63x or so and it sucked to daily drive. I enjoyed the hotcam in my 95 Z28 and my 99 Z28. People talked so much trash about them and I ran as well or quicker than some guys with the infamous Trex and others. Sounds like when the day comes, I will seriously consider the hotcam again. I work with a guy who used to build Ford mod motors and others for years and listen to him talk about valvetrain stability and how much power is made from a properly set up valvetrain. You can spend some serious money there, but it makes the difference.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Purplt1

Thanks for the info . I came from a coyote so I don't know a whole lot about the ls/lt engines. I daily my car about 12 -15k miles a year but looks like I should invest in some better lifters although I don't plan on hitting 6-7k rpm much.

I would sell the LS7 and grab some Johnson 2110's.

Originally Posted by Redlinez

I wonder if some of these shops would steer you correctly if you tell them your vehicle is daily driven. Tons of guys here only drive them on occasion and race them. In those cases, the more aggressive set ups may not matter as much. I remember in my LS1 days my guy constantly recommended 224-228 600 lift cams for a reason. I went with a Futral 232/234 63x/63x or so and it sucked to daily drive. I enjoyed the hotcam in my 95 Z28 and my 99 Z28. People talked so much trash about them and I ran as well or quicker than some guys with the infamous Trex and others. Sounds like when the day comes, I will seriously consider the hotcam again. I work with a guy who used to build Ford mod motors and others for years and listen to him talk about valvetrain stability and how much power is made from a properly set up valvetrain. You can spend some serious money there, but it makes the difference.

The main reason why LS7 are popular is because they make installation of a cam swap easy. All you have to do is get somewhat close on push rod length and the LS7 lifters will absorb the difference since they have so much plunger travel. However that huge amount of travel isn't the best for high rpm use. Short travel lifters will make more power up top, have more stability, and will maintain full cam lift at the valve.

[Redlinez]

^ Makes sense to me.