[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by JonDaddy82

Buddy of mine was an early GT350 adopter, put a deposit down...special ordered the car...paid over MSRP....the whole deal. Boy did all of that end up down the shitter! Car was horrific with oil consumption, he wound up selling it an loosing his ass. They DO not hold their value better than anything else, at least the non-R models.

This should be car buying tip 101.

There is a HUGE price to pay for being an early adapter.

One would be so much better off financially and piece of mind wise to let the hype die down, then buy your dream car.

[Alain]

I didn't read all the pages in this thread so I might be reiterating some of the same points here.

I own a 2018 ZL1 1LE and a 2019 GT 350R. They are very different animals.

On the street the 350R is a pleasure to drive because it's not as crazy as the ZL1. You can hammer the gas pedal out of the corners and on the winding bends and the car stays planted. The ZL1 1LE requires more effort and skill to tame because of all the extra power it has.

If you love that low end torque (stop light to stop light fun) the 350R is not for you, go with the ZL1. Below 3,000 RPM the Shelby is a slug. 4,000 RPM and above it's an absolute beast and a blast to drive. My sweet spot is winding it up to 100 MPH+ in 4th gear !!!!

If you are big on exhaust note, the 350R is the best sounding American car on the street right now.

The oil consumption issues are indeed a reality. When I first bought my 350R I was looking to keep it low miles, but I've decided to drive it as much as possible while the warranty is still active. If the motor craps out then I'll let Ford deal with it. It's gonna suck to go through that but that's what a warranty is for.

if you can find a Ford dealership that will let you test drive a Shelby, I would do that. Ultimately you can't go wrong with either car in my opinion.

[JonDaddy82]

Visibility and trunk aside, I much preferred my interior to is, the Camaro didn’t seem near as rental car which was a perpetual complaint of his.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Alain

The oil consumption issues are indeed a reality.

Lost alot of what little respect I had for Ford because of this issue - this is their signature motor - unacceptable, especially an n/a engine. How many superbikes rev to 14k and don't use a drop? Fix Or Repair Daily

The motor is hardly the "best sounding on the road" - Mustangs sound like shit if you ask me, they think they're so badass with their crappy load exhaust and I want to run them over with an M1 tank

[passwords]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

Not to mention some incidents of the A10 Overheating on the track. The ZL1 M6 has computer aided No Lift Shift programming. I track my car and I’ve never been passed on the track because of “shift lag” or because the other car was an auto. If you haven’t played with the no lift shift you should give it a try. It’s pretty amazing.

My first experience with no-lift-shift was in 1989 in my ‘79 camaro with a high nickel 350 small block (tons of machine work), a NOS Super Powershot 375hp nitrous kit, and a Muncie M-22 with a Vertigate shifter (I estimate between motor and the nitrous I was around 700hp at the crank). I never took my foot off the gas while shifting then, and I don’t do it with my more modern cars now even though the new factory gated shifters aren’t nearly as smooth as that old Vertigate was. I haven’t noticed anything different between the ZLE and the GT350R while shifting at wide open throttle but I may be missing something? When I watch track videos now I cringe when I hear the granny shifting many road course racers use. It should not take 1 1/2 to 2 seconds to upshift. If you are on a straight you should get into that next gear without lifting the gas pedal. Of course I also think that if the shifter or tranny breaks, then it just wasn’t strong enough for the job and it’ll get replaced with something stronger.

[Vtor_ZL1]

Road racers = preservation of machinery, can't finish race is car is broken. Unless you have no lift shift, where power is cut, you are doing damage, ie accelerated wear.

[nicktechla]

You are asking on a Camaro forum, so I can predict the answers you are going to get

[passwords]

Originally Posted by Vtor_ZL1

Road racers = preservation of machinery, can't finish race is car is broken. Unless you have no lift shift, where power is cut, you are doing damage, ie accelerated wear.

That’s probably what I’m missing. Back then I was focused on going like hell in a straight line. That reminds me, I need to get my tow hooks on ASAP.

[JROC]

Here why I vote ZL1. I get tired of Ford polishing turds. The S550 was designed to compete with Zeta and is not on Alphas level. Ford does this crap all the time. They make a less than stellar platform for the Mustang to ride on and then try and make it excel better than it should be able to. Camaro did this with the GEN5 Z/28. (and frankly the SS 1LE seeing as it ate a 15 GT PP1 alive around I believe Willow Spring in that MT test comparing a GEN5 SS 1LE to a 15 GT PP1. A S550 GT PP1 is faster than a Boss 302 LS my ass if it loses as bad to a GEN5 SS 1LE as it did in that test. Like almost 2 second if I remember right) "Look a 2000 Cobra R can lap tracks with C5Z's and GEN2 Vipers." Well who the hell wants to street a Cobra R with no radio, A/C, a minimal interior with cooling tubes being routed thru the cabin, etc. Plus the other cars potential is much higher than a SN95 platform. It's the same with S550. It's just a revamped DEW98 which was used on the old Lincoln LS, early 2000's Thunderbird, some old Jaguars, etc. Your trying to compete with one of the best unibody platforms ever with that?

I used to bleed blue. The GEN6 Mustang was the final nail in the coffin for me. All these Mustang fanboys (including myself) would claim a GEN5 Camaro is a POS because it's overweight. Well so is a GEN6 Mustang. It's pushing towards 3900 lbs with in GT PP1, premium forum. All that 3700 lb BS is for a basic, no option 15-17 GT which is comparable to a sub-3600 lb Camaro LT1. Ford knew Alpha was better before it even came out. That's why the lead Mustang engineer at the time was saying that Mustang wasn't trying to compete with Camaro and Challenger, but Porsche and BMW. Also Ford was claiming that an Alpha Camaro couldn't be made to weigh less than a comparable model S550 and that turned out to not be true.

When Ford starts trying to build world class chassis/suspension setups for Mustang, (which they've never really done, as Mustangs platform is always budgeted on more than its competitors) then I'll start looking seriously at Mustangs again.

Look I love Foxbodys and Terminators, etc but they are built on chitty platforms with very poorly engineered suspensions. (Even the Cobras IRS) You want to build them to shine as bright as they can then copy a GEN4 Fbody suspension setup for them. You even do that to a S197 if you want it to perform its best. Pretty sad really.

I will say I think a GT350R is a cooler car, just not a better one. Like I'm disappointed in Ford compromising Mustangs chassis the way they do, they have very much stepped up their motor game where GM has started to fall off their motor game in some ways. AFM is some BS and forcing it on people is not cool, and I was very disappointed with how GM compromised the LT4's blower. LT4 isn't even on Trinitys level much less the 2020 GT500's level simply because they used a blower way less efficient than a TVS2300/2650 or the SRT Hellcat blower. They used the excuse of clearing the hood on a Z06. You don't build a higher performance motor with a blower on it to fit a hood, you build a hood to fit that motor. Kind of like the LT5 in the ZR1. The LT5 is a badass motor, with an efficient blower, and has an ideal fuel system setup.

[HypeBlueZL1]

Originally Posted by JROC

Here why I vote ZL1. I get tired of Ford polishing turds. The S550 was designed to compete with Zeta and is not on Alphas level. Ford does this crap all the time. They make a less than stellar platform for the Mustang to ride on and then try and make it excel better than it should be able to. Camaro did this with the GEN5 Z/28. (and frankly the SS 1LE seeing as it ate a 15 GT PP1 alive around I believe Willow Spring in that MT test comparing a GEN5 SS 1LE to a 15 GT PP1. A S550 GT PP1 is faster than a Boss 302 LS my ass if it loses as bad to a GEN5 SS 1LE as it did in that test. Like almost 2 second if I remember right) "Look a 2000 Cobra R can lap tracks with C5Z's and GEN2 Vipers." Well who the hell wants to street a Cobra R with no radio, A/C, a minimal interior with cooling tubes being routed thru the cabin, etc. Plus the other cars potential is much higher than a SN95 platform. It's the same with S550. It's just a revamped DEW98 which was used on the old Lincoln LS, early 2000's Thunderbird, some old Jaguars, etc. Your trying to compete with one of the best unibody platforms ever with that?

I used to bleed blue. The GEN6 Mustang was the final nail in the coffin for me. All these Mustang fanboys (including myself) would claim a GEN5 Camaro is a POS because it's overweight. Well so is a GEN6 Mustang. It's pushing towards 3900 lbs with in GT PP1, premium forum. All that 3700 lb BS is for a basic, no option 15-17 GT which is comparable to a sub-3600 lb Camaro LT1. Ford knew Alpha was better before it even came out. That's why the lead Mustang engineer at the time was saying that Mustang wasn't trying to compete with Camaro and Challenger, but Porsche and BMW. Also Ford was claiming that an Alpha Camaro couldn't be made to weigh less than a comparable model S550 and that turned out to not be true.

When Ford starts trying to build world class chassis/suspension setups for Mustang, (which they've never really done, as Mustangs platform is always budgeted on more than its competitors) then I'll start looking seriously at Mustangs again.

Look I love Foxbodys and Terminators, etc but they are built on chitty platforms with very poorly engineered suspensions. (Even the Cobras IRS) You want to build them to shine as bright as they can then copy a GEN4 Fbody suspension setup for them. You even do that to a S197 if you want it to perform its best. Pretty sad really.

I will say I think a GT350R is a cooler car, just not a better one. Like I'm disappointed in Ford compromising Mustangs chassis the way they do, they have very much stepped up their motor game where GM has started to fall off their motor game in some ways. AFM is some BS and forcing it on people is not cool, and I was very disappointed with how GM compromised the LT4's blower. LT4 isn't even on Trinitys level much less the 2020 GT500's level simply because they used a blower way less efficient than a TVS2300/2650 or the SRT Hellcat blower. They used the excuse of clearing the hood on a Z06. You don't build a higher performance motor with a blower on it to fit a hood, you build a hood to fit that motor. Kind of like the LT5 in the ZR1. The LT5 is a badass motor, with an efficient blower, and has an ideal fuel system setup.

This. So much this. I use to be a huge ford guy, owned a bunch of Cobras and fox body mustangs. Haven't bought a Ford product since the 2000 Lightning. This is my first Camaro and I believe it is the superior product on the market.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by JROC

AFM is some BS and forcing it on people is not cool, and I was very disappointed with how GM compromised the LT4's blower. LT4 isn't even on Trinitys level much less the 2020 GT500's level simply because they used a blower way less efficient than a TVS2300/2650 or the SRT Hellcat blower. They used the excuse of clearing the hood on a Z06. You don't build a higher performance motor with a blower on it to fit a hood, you build a hood to fit that motor. Kind of like the LT5 in the ZR1. The LT5 is a badass motor, with an efficient blower, and has an ideal fuel system setup.

+1, although I will add that GM has typically prioritized torque/midrange "street freindly" power vs top end - the LT1 is no different, a screaming 6.2L can make alot more than 390-410 rwhp

The ZL1 would be quite an animal with an LT5. If the Camaro survives, no reason they shouldn't do it, but everyone is in cost cutting mode so it's highly unlikely

[SCCAForums]

Jroc & HyperBlue...I'm with you... was Blue Oval boy through and through... been racing GM products sine 2005 and haven't looked back.

No doubt, ZL1 is THE BEST car for the money today. Ford has a LONG way to go to catch up... frankly the 'front weight' of the Mustang is and will always be a severe disadvantage... like trying to race an Audi.

Best regards,
Dave

[SFV1LE]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums

Jroc & HyperBlue...I'm with you... was Blue Oval boy through and through... been racing GM products sine 2005 and haven't looked back.

No doubt, ZL1 is THE BEST car for the money today. Ford has a LONG way to go to catch up... frankly the 'front weight' of the Mustang is and will always be a severe disadvantage... like trying to race an Audi.

Best regards,
Dave

I love my ZLE and plan to keep it for awhile. But if you can find a C8 at or below MSRP, and I see some dealers online appearing to do this, I think it recently stole the crown for best/most car for the money. But not by much.

[SCCAForums]

Originally Posted by SFV1LE

I love my ZLE and plan to keep it for awhile. But if you can find a C8 at or below MSRP, and I see some dealers online appearing to do this, I think it recently stole the crown for best/most car for the money. But not by much.

Almost agree... the C8 is an incredible car for the money... and will redefine the segment ONCE the Z06 comes out.

At 495HP... not so much. I don't want to get whooped on the big end! ZL1 keeps on pullin' and pullin'

When the C8 Z06 comes out... many of us may have a very difficult decision to make! I hope to only be able to keep more than one sports car then.

Best regards,
Dave