[rocket403]

How about the 2 fastest cars from 1973
Supercars 73
455 Trans Am 13.50@104
455SD GTO 13.7@103

Hi-Performance Cars
1967 442 W30 14.10@103

Car and Driver 70
454 LS6 13.0@103.80

[oldman]

Always like the SD. I never did find out if the prototype test car (which had the larger cam) was used in some, most or all testing. They build the test car and then it failed smog and the cam used was smaller than the big cam, but maybe in the big picture the car stock thru exhaust manifolds maybe faster with the smaller cam (it is still a big cam).

[smokinzx14r]

Just some numbers I ran back in the mid 70s ..1970 Monte Carlo SS 454 stock but for a set of M/T 9 inch slicks 14.01 , can't recall the MPH .. 1969 Gran Pix 428 four speed ( same slicks as the Monte ) 14.20 ... 1968 GTX 100% stock , 440 , 727 , 276 open 8 3/4 rear .. 14.80s :( ... 1969 Mach 1 with a boss 429 transplant , cammed , 850 Holley DP , top loader four speed, zoom clutch , 4.88 gears on 10 inch slicks , open headers , straight axle , yes I said straight axle .. 10.90s at Green Valley .. 1969 Nova built 331, iron head angle plug heads , 456 gear, power slide , 5500 A1 convertor 11.20s .. 1969 Hemi Roadrunner, 4 speed, Dana 60 4.10s , all stock but with 9 inch M/T on cop wheels ..Best ever pass 12.99 @ 105 , Most passes were 13.01 to 13.04 .. On stock tires low 14s.. My Roadrunner ( 1994 ) was going to be the car used in the 3rd Hemi Vs Buick GS shoot out but caught fire a few weeks before the race while testing ..

[smokinzx14r]

Originally Posted by smokinzx14r

Just some numbers I ran back in the mid 70s ..1970 Monte Carlo SS 454 stock but for a set of M/T 9 inch slicks 14.01 , can't recall the MPH .. 1969 Gran Pix 428 four speed ( same slicks as the Monte ) 14.20 ... 1968 GTX 100% stock , 440 , 727 , 276 open 8 3/4 rear .. 14.80s :( ... 1969 Mach 1 with a boss 429 transplant , cammed , 850 Holley DP , top loader four speed, zoom clutch , 4.88 gears on 10 inch slicks , open headers , straight axle , yes I said straight axle .. 10.90s at Green Valley .. 1969 Nova built 331, iron head angle plug heads , 456 gear, power slide , 5500 A1 convertor 11.20s .. 1969 Hemi Roadrunner, 4 speed, Dana 60 4.10s , all stock but with 9 inch M/T on cop wheels ..Best ever pass 12.99 @ 105 , Most passes were 13.01 to 13.04 .. On stock tires low 14s.. My Roadrunner ( 1994 ) was going to be the car used in the 3rd Hemi Vs Buick GS shoot out but caught fire a few weeks before the race while testing ..

Comparing those numbers from the cars in the 60s 70s shows how far we have come ..My 2015 mustang with a Procharger runs 9.80 @ 138 ..My challenger 1320 ran 11.60s @ 116 . I sure loved them old hot rods but the new ones are just flat out better cars and just as fun ..

[smokinzx14r]

Not saying you can't have fun with the old cars , with new tech they run very strong .. My 1970 Roadrunner with a 496 pump gas motor , Edelbrock heads , hyd cam 504 isky , 3.55 gears , 727 with a mopar 2200 convertor ran 10.80s and was a great daily driver.. I put 1000s of trouble free miles on this car ..

[oldman]

slow down boys. I'm only interested in PURE STOCK, firstly but recognize that many were tuned, and some like the GS 455, and Royal Pontiacs probably had head work / mill thin gaskets, shimmed springs etc.

One we go to stock but.... then really there yes there is a class for that and it is Super Stock. It is stock... cheater cam, higher CR, headers, slicks, light weight.

Pure Stock Drags... 2.5 mandrel exhaust (super benefit for the Camaro which had 2.25 and a SINGLE muffler), higher CR (good for the 73 SD), cheater cam... the rest is stock but blueprinted.

Magazine test, problem here it goes from stock, which is Motor Trend, to we do everything possible to make the car go faster which can include a dynotune (carb and distributor work) which would be Car Life.

[smokinzx14r]

Originally Posted by oldman

slow down boys. I'm only interested in PURE STOCK, firstly but recognize that many were tuned, and some like the GS 455, and Royal Pontiacs probably had head work / mill thin gaskets, shimmed springs etc.

One we go to stock but.... then really there yes there is a class for that and it is Super Stock. It is stock... cheater cam, higher CR, headers, slicks, light weight.

Pure Stock Drags... 2.5 mandrel exhaust (super benefit for the Camaro which had 2.25 and a SINGLE muffler), higher CR (good for the 73 SD), cheater cam... the rest is stock but blueprinted.

Magazine test, problem here it goes from stock, which is Motor Trend, to we do everything possible to make the car go faster which can include a dynotune (carb and distributor work) which would be Car Life.

I get what you are saying ..Hell, I lived it like you did ..I saw these cars brand new racing in Sacramento and then in TX .. Not one single car i saw 100% stock ran the numbers we read about in hot rod , car craft , motor trend ... A good driver may get one in the high 13s but most I saw ran 14s to 15s , and at that time in history was pretty darn fast ..Sure Ronnie Sox did take a new 69 1/2 440 six pack four speed car and run high 12s ..Not for one second did I think it was 100% stock , I'm sure the car had Jake King magic hands all over that car as well as the skunk works at Chrysler .That car was most likely tested on Woodward Ave long before it hit the track .. Best way to compare it would be to see what they did with the Demon to get it to run 9.60s ..2000 - DA , super prepped track and 100s of passes in the fast right hand lane at Atco to run that number .. Numbers sell cars , always have and always will .. Back in the 60s and 70s they could get away with fudging numbers .. Today no so much , with the internet and info at the touch of a button we pretty much know when funny stuff is going on .. Today we know a hero run when we see it .. The car makers and magazines know full well we are going to see if we can back up their claimed numbers real fast .. Case in point , Dodge told us the Challenger 1320 would run 11.70s right off the show room floor .. It did run 11.70s and faster right off the floor .. Mine 100% stock , no weight removed , stock tires , rears tires set to 18 psi ran 11.60s @ 116 with 385 miles on the car ..Guys up north in better air at Atco were in the 11.50s .. When I was going to run the 3rd Buick Vs Hemi car shoot out I knew all the ticks the Buick guys had .. Switch pitch convertor , 700 CFM holley carb , Stage 2 Iron heads , honed exhaust manifolds ..I was bringing a 100% stock hemi car and they were bringing a super stock car that ran mid 11.00s .. Knowing this I was going to point out every lie they had told me about the car and refuse to run that car ..Bring me a real stock GS and we will run .. That would have been a real close race with both cars running low 13s as they should .. It would have come down to the driver on who won , the cars stock would have been that close .. There is a number 4 shoot out ( Buick GS Vs Hemi ) coming , shots have been fired by both sides .. We should be seeing it soon ..

[Fraxum]

I was in high school back then you old men.

In those days a 12 second 1/4 stocker meant a cheater or a liar. But to me that was super fast and showed the potential of the car. My dream was an 11.5 1/4 as promised by Joel Rosen. That was Nirvana.

I've had a couple of cars that could beat that. But in the end I am thrilled to own a 12.3 car out of the box. We are so spoiled now. None of that old stock muscle iron rolling down the Mecham block is faster than my low line LT1. Any of them want to go title for title with my LT!?

Remember the original Pinks? That show brought me back to Front Street in Philly.

[smokinzx14r]

You were talking about the 340 mopars , I had a few of them over the years ..I never took one to the drag strip and got any real numbers to talk about .. I had a 69 340 cuda , 727 , 3.91 gears that felt real fast and it was to a point ..Light weight , peppy motor ..It was quick to the 1/8 mile but lacked top end charge like the big block cars ..I could get out on them but always got passed on the top end .. 340 was a great motor but no better than a 327 , 350 or a Boss 302 or 351 C of the day ..Clearly it made more than 275 HP , more like 300 to 310 HP .. Like it's counter parts from GM and Ford it responded to mods very well ..Problem was it was costly to hot rod a 340 and much cheaper to do a small block chevy ..Ford motors were also costly to build .. We always joked you could get a set of free piston's and rods for a chevy at Micky Ds with a happy meal ..

[smokinzx14r]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I was in high school back then you old men.

In those days a 12 second 1/4 stocker meant a cheater or a liar. But to me that was super fast and showed the potential of the car. My dream was an 11.5 1/4 as promised by Joel Rosen. That was Nirvana.

I've had a couple of cars that could beat that. But in the end I am thrilled to own a 12.3 car out of the box. We are so spoiled now. None of that old stock muscle iron rolling down the Mecham block is faster than my low line LT1. Any of them want to go title for title with my LT!?

Remember the original Pinks? That show brought me back to Front Street in Philly.

Front Street in Philly wow , I had a friend that raced his GTX their back in the day .. He has some great stories about that .. Old men ? well yes we are old but well seasoned ..

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by smokinzx14r

Not saying you can't have fun with the old cars , with new tech they run very strong .. My 1970 Roadrunner with a 496 pump gas motor , Edelbrock heads , hyd cam 504 isky , 3.55 gears , 727 with a mopar 2200 convertor ran 10.80s and was a great daily driver.. I put 1000s of trouble free miles on this car ..

Wow. I always loved '70 RoadRunners. Yours might be the '70 Road Runner top dog.

But to your point the biggest performance advancements made in all these years is in performance reliability. Back in the day a RR running like yours would be a tempermental wild animal.

Yet your RR is docile enough for a traffic jam. That is what is so super-amazing about the cars built today. I am in awe of the technology.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by smokinzx14r

I get what you are saying ..Hell, I lived it like you did ..I saw these cars brand new racing in Sacramento and then in TX .. Not one single car i saw 100% stock ran the numbers we read about in hot rod , car craft , motor trend ... A good driver may get one in the high 13s but most I saw ran 14s to 15s , and at that time in history was pretty darn fast ..Sure Ronnie Sox did take a new 69 1/2 440 six pack four speed car and run high 12s ..Not for one second did I think it was 100% stock , I'm sure the car had Jake King magic hands all over that car as well as the skunk works at Chrysler .That car was most likely tested on Woodward Ave long before it hit the track .. Best way to compare it would be to see what they did with the Demon to get it to run 9.60s ..2000 - DA , super prepped track and 100s of passes in the fast right hand lane at Atco to run that number .. Numbers sell cars , always have and always will .. Back in the 60s and 70s they could get away with fudging numbers .. Today no so much , with the internet and info at the touch of a button we pretty much know when funny stuff is going on .. Today we know a hero run when we see it .. The car makers and magazines know full well we are going to see if we can back up their claimed numbers real fast .. Case in point , Dodge told us the Challenger 1320 would run 11.70s right off the show room floor .. It did run 11.70s and faster right off the floor .. Mine 100% stock , no weight removed , stock tires , rears tires set to 18 psi ran 11.60s @ 116 with 385 miles on the car ..Guys up north in better air at Atco were in the 11.50s .. When I was going to run the 3rd Buick Vs Hemi car shoot out I knew all the ticks the Buick guys had .. Switch pitch convertor , 700 CFM holley carb , Stage 2 Iron heads , honed exhaust manifolds ..I was bringing a 100% stock hemi car and they were bringing a super stock car that ran mid 11.00s .. Knowing this I was going to point out every lie they had told me about the car and refuse to run that car ..Bring me a real stock GS and we will run .. That would have been a real close race with both cars running low 13s as they should .. It would have come down to the driver on who won , the cars stock would have been that close .. There is a number 4 shoot out ( Buick GS Vs Hemi ) coming , shots have been fired by both sides .. We should be seeing it soon ..

Well said and from your lips to god's ear.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by smokinzx14r

You were talking about the 340 mopars , I had a few of them over the years ..I never took one to the drag strip and got any real numbers to talk about .. I had a 69 340 cuda , 727 , 3.91 gears that felt real fast and it was to a point ..Light weight , peppy motor ..It was quick to the 1/8 mile but lacked top end charge like the big block cars ..I could get out on them but always got passed on the top end .. 340 was a great motor but no better than a 327 , 350 or a Boss 302 or 351 C of the day ..Clearly it made more than 275 HP , more like 300 to 310 HP .. Like it's counter parts from GM and Ford it responded to mods very well ..Problem was it was costly to hot rod a 340 and much cheaper to do a small block chevy ..Ford motors were also costly to build .. We always joked you could get a set of free piston's and rods for a chevy at Micky Ds with a happy meal ..

The big advantage of the 340 over say a 350 or even 396 Camaro was the graceful exhaust manifolds (headers worth only 5 HP with stock cam) and true dual exhaust (Camaro single muffler). So about 300 HP gross (dyno, dyno headers, no air cleaner, no acc.) is close, and say 320 for the 6 pack. Point is net as installed in the car the 340 was hard to beat because of a brilliant factory exhaust manifold and true duals (air filter and TQ carb assembly form 70 on was also very good).

One BIG drawback for the RamRod was it used the 350 log, not the port separated 442 exhaust manifolds. Which would add say 7 to 15 HP on such a large cammed engine. The current net HP estimate for the RamRod is 290 net HP. Add open headers and richen the jets 325 to 350 is completely believable. The LT-1 put about 350 bhp so the RamRod is within debate about the strongest small block made till the last gen LT1 in 97.

On a Camaro 427 it is estimated that headers open could add anywhere from 60 to 120 HP vs stock logs, single muffler 2.25 system. In fact the smaller cam LS6 probably produced near identical HP net. But add a set of open headers and a tune.... well the L88 was near or even above Hemi HP with headers.

[rocket403]

The Olds 350 was the best SB that GM made all Olds blocks up to 74 I think used a higher nickel content than other GM engines,

Here is a little bit of info from this page

"The small blocks have a number of design advantages. One, the bore size on a 350 is not much smaller than that on a 455, and the bore size on a 403 is much bigger than a 455's bore. That means these two small blocks can use valves as big or bigger than a 455 can, and with less valve shrouding for the 403 than the 455. Usually, the most restrictive item in the whole intake port of an engine is the valves; this means that a small block Olds engine's heads should be able to flow about as many cfm as a big-block Olds, and ultimately the maximum horsepower you can get from any engine depends only on the airflow. This means that: Gasp! A 350 or 403 Olds should be able to make as much or more horsepower than a 455, albeit at a higher rpm."

https://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobi...sfaq/ofbsb.htm

I'm running a late 70's 403 with 69 350 heads and 455 valves in my 80 Cutlass and making over 400hp