[KingLT1]

The z06 A8 isn't the same internally and doesn't have converter shudder issues.

[CamaroSS1LItaly]

Curious how much hp can handle the 2019 ss 10 speed....

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The z06 A8 isn't the same internally and doesn't have converter shudder issues.

What is different on the ZO6 8L90?

I know when I try to copy and paste the ZO6 calibration over to my Camaro 8L90 it seems like it works but the there is a really bad tie up on WOT downshifts to 3rd gear. Unfortunately with HP tuners it won't let me just flash the whole ZO6 OS in (if that would work, or maybe it would freak out because some of the electronics differences) since I don't have the ZO6 tune file licensed.

[JT58]

What is the difference between the 8 speed and the 10 speed? Is the 8 speed totally different, developed just by GM and the 10 speed completely new developed by Ford and GM?

It is great to hear that the 10 speed has been trouble free so far. I am in the market for a new truck- 2020 Ranger, F150, Colorado, Silverado are on the list. I was shying away from the GM's as they still use the 8 speed- not sure why they are not using the 10 speed- which Ford is in all of their trucks and the Mustang.

Did GM do anything to address the shudder in the current 8 speeds? I believe it was a fluid issue that fried the torque converters? Someone on a previous post stated that it was a programming issue? Was it an issue 2016-2018 models only? I am so afraid of the 8 speed as it is the sole reason I ditched my 2017 Camaro RS and now drive a 2016 with M6.

[gmcvt]

I had an 18 5.0 with the A10 and my current Camaro is an A10. The Mustang from a performance standpoint was fantastic but I found its daily mannerisms a bit edgy and occasionally harsh. It just always felt a bit strung out. The Camaro on the other hand just seems to be MUCH smoother. My wife even noticed the difference from the passenger seat. The A10 in the 5.0 was great but to me the Camaro shift logic is fantastic. Love the A10 in my Camaro. But I'm getting old so who knows, maybe its all in my head.

[NEGXXIS]

I had a 16 SS with the 8 speed. Had the converter replaced and trans flushed at 17k due to the shudder. Never had any problems after that. And put 46k miles on it till it got totaled.
Now I have a 19 SS with the 10 speed and its an amazing trans !
In my opinion it is a much better driving experience. Plus a little better fuel mileage and a little quicker 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

[arpad_m]

The following is my understanding of the issue, anyone with more in-depth information please feel free to correct me or augment it.

Originally Posted by JT58

What is the difference between the 8 speed and the 10 speed? Is the 8 speed totally different, developed just by GM and the 10 speed completely new developed by Ford and GM?

The 10-speed longitudinal transmission was designed by Ford.

GM's high torque 10L90 application of this transmission design has different programming and much improved torque capacity over both Ford's 10R80 and GM's lower end 10L80. It is only used in the ZL1 and the 2019+ Cadillac CT6, while the 2019+ SS uses the 10L80.

As part of the the collaboration, GM designed a 9-speed transverse unit that Ford later rejected.

(source; I'm finding the same information everywhere).

Originally Posted by JT58

Did GM do anything to address the shudder in the current 8 speeds? I believe it was a fluid issue that fried the torque converters? Someone on a previous post stated that it was a programming issue? Was it an issue 2016-2018 models only? I am so afraid of the 8 speed as it is the sole reason I ditched my 2017 Camaro RS and now drive a 2016 with M6.

The "shudder" seems to be addressed completely by the Jan 2019 fluid (Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF HP, part number 19417577). If it is performed on a vehicle that was exposed to shudder too long, the torque converter may be damaged in that too much friction material may be abraded from clutch packs, and in these cases the torque converter needs to be replaced (see also this link).

I have not seen reports either here or from my dealership of the shudder returning after a flush + TC replacement.

The programming issue is that GM's transmission (TCM) programming logic allows a relatively significant amount of slip in 7th and 8th gears for better daily drivability, which, coupled with the overly hygroscopic old fluids, accelerates the burnishing of clutches. As far as I understand, the shudder itself is originating from an alternating pattern of low and high pressure pump application during slip.

Several members here have had their TCM's reprogrammed to reduce or remove the allowed slip altogether (by "zeroing out the slip tables"), which eliminates the symptoms unless the torque converter is damaged beyond hope. Also, the factory transmission tune has a large safety margin in terms of torque management and shift times that can be improved with a custom tune.

On the other hand, apart from the shudder concern the 8L90 is a very powerful and stout transmission with high torque capacity, and it performs extremely well in standard as well as high power applications after a tune. Since there is an apparently working fix for the shudder condition, the risk associated with getting the 8L90 is much lower than initially.

As to myself, I am on the latest fluid with a proper transmission tune, and have zero problems with the A8, it's smooth during low power daily driving and an animal at WOT and in performance shift mode, pulling perfectly timed upshifts and downshifts with no jerking, rev hangs or shudder.

[MATEOLT1SS]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

I had an 18 5.0 with the A10 and my current Camaro is an A10. The Mustang from a performance standpoint was fantastic but I found its daily mannerisms a bit edgy and occasionally harsh. It just always felt a bit strung out. The Camaro on the other hand just seems to be MUCH smoother. My wife even noticed the difference from the passenger seat. The A10 in the 5.0 was great but to me the Camaro shift logic is fantastic. Love the A10 in my Camaro. But I'm getting old so who knows, maybe its all in my head.

I agree 100%. I drive a lot of Mustang's since I work at a Ford dealer. They perform great but they shift too hard under regular driving. My A10 SS is much smoother and comfy to drive around town and offers similar acceleration.

[Staves]

Originally Posted by MATEOLT1SS

I agree 100%. I drive a lot of Mustang's since I work at a Ford dealer. They perform great but they shift too hard under regular driving. My A10 SS is much smoother and comfy to drive around town and offers similar acceleration.

Agree as well. Test drove 3 A10 Mustang GTs prior to the SS. They performed well but they didn't shift smooth....the A10 in the SS was noticeably smoother immediately.