[GermanMuscle]

Hi Everyone,
taking my SS1LE to the track for the first time this month. Actually, it will be the first time taking any car to the track ! All my track prep on the car is pretty much done (Engine Oil, Diff Fluid and Brake Fluid) besides the "Track Camber". Is this really necessary for an absolute beginner like myself? The reason I ask is because I saw some threads, where people daily/weekend drive their cars with the track camber setup and have extremely uneven and fast tire wear. I drive my Camaro twice a week on regular roads so even though I bought it as a track car I am not looking to replace the tires every couple weeks with an aggressive camber setup like that.


Thoughts?

[Uncle Sam]

You don't have to do this. You will want to make sure that your alignment is good, especially the toe settings. They seem to be off from the factory for many of our cars. You will want to set the camber for the track eventually as there will be less tire wear. Driving on track camber settings doesn't speed wear that much on the stock tires on the street. Enjoy your car!

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

The reason I ask is because I saw some threads, where people daily/weekend drive their cars with the track camber setup and have extremely uneven and fast tire wear. I drive my Camaro twice a week on regular roads so even though I bought it as a track car I am not looking to replace the tires every couple weeks with an aggressive camber setup like that.


Thoughts?

Can you provide examples of these posts? I've had my car on the track camber spec since pretty much new, and tire wear has been very even, and not what I would consider excessively rapid for this type of tire, even with thousands of miles of road trips (In my first year of ownership, I did a 2500 mile round trip from Toronto to Atlanta to do a track day at Road Atlanta, among others).

If people have had uneven/excessive wear, I would suspect that the alignment was done incorrectly. A friend of mine went through a set of front tires in a couple thousand miles because the first alignment shop he went to set the toe completely wrong.

Nigel

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

Hi Everyone,
taking my SS1LE to the track for the first time this month. Actually, it will be the first time taking any car to the track ! All my track prep on the car is pretty much done (Engine Oil, Diff Fluid and Brake Fluid) besides the "Track Camber". Is this really necessary for an absolute beginner like myself? The reason I ask is because I saw some threads, where people daily/weekend drive their cars with the track camber setup and have extremely uneven and fast tire wear. I drive my Camaro twice a week on regular roads so even though I bought it as a track car I am not looking to replace the tires every couple weeks with an aggressive camber setup like that.


Thoughts?

Toe causes far more issues than camber when it comes to tire wear.

Personally I'd suggest the track alignment.. but required? Not really, you'll just eat up more tire on track and be a bit slower but that's not the most important thing for you at this stage I bet.

You can always come by for a ride in my car

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by GermanMuscle

Hi Everyone,
taking my SS1LE to the track for the first time this month. Actually, it will be the first time taking any car to the track ! All my track prep on the car is pretty much done (Engine Oil, Diff Fluid and Brake Fluid) besides the "Track Camber". Is this really necessary for an absolute beginner like myself?

A track alignment is not necessary for a driver in the Novice run group.

The main idea at first is just to get your bearings out there, get comfortable, be safe, and have fun. A bone stock 1LE is a LOT of car for your first track day. Many guys start out with a lot less car, like a Miata/MX5, GTI, BRZ, WRX, Focus ST, older BMW 3 series, etc.

I've been doing one HPDE track day per year since 2007. I've had my Camaro on the track twice - Lime Rock and Palmer Motorsports - and went with the factory alignment both times. I'm going to Watkins Glen this July in the Intermediate run group, and will keep the factory alignment for that too.

It's going to be awesome and overwhelming as it is. Once you exit the pit and enter the track for the first time, it will be information overload and adrenaline city, and track alignment will be the last thing on your mind. You're going to love that 1LE more than ever after experiencing it on a race track.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I'm going to Watkins Glen this July in the Intermediate run group, and will keep the factory alignment for that too.

Keep your speed down a bit in the esses them IMO. That's the last place you'll want to push.. and lift.

Track alignment is so cheap I don't understand why you wouldn't do that in intermediate.

[OVRKLL]

From my experience, modding the driver is the best place to spend your money when starting out. Join the SCCA if you're serious, do a couple of autox sessions and learn the limits of the car.
Then once you have that, you'll want to start the mods.
For now it's more car than you can drive...and for most people...including me, it's will be that way for a while.
Just be safe and enjoy the car...and don't street race with it whatever you do.
It's a good way to damage your car and possibly end a life...just saying!

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Keep your speed down a bit in the esses them IMO. That's the last place you'll want to push.. and lift.

Track alignment is so cheap I don't understand why you wouldn't do that in intermediate.

Thanks for the Watkins Glen advice!

I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. I just wanted to give a first-timer the opinion of someone who has done over a dozen track days.

This may sound crazy to some folks on this forum, but my first 7 track days were with a bone stock 2005 Mustang GT on all-season tires! According to multiple instructors and other sources, all-seasons can actually provide an advantage for novice drivers, because they squeal loudly giving the driver an audible warning when approaching the limits of the tires. For me, yes, my lap times would have been quicker with proper summer performance tires, but the all-seasons did not take anything away from the fun and experience.

It's common and natural for first-timers to want to mod their cars before tracking them, but my opinion is to just get out there with your car as-is and learn the proper techniques.

Why don't I go to the track alignment myself, since I have been running in the Intermediate run group for the past 5 years? The answer is I don't see the need to. Again, this is my opinion and others may disagree - but I think that track alignment is best-suited for the track, and less than optimal on the street. Otherwise, why wouldn't Chevrolet just ship all 1LEs with track alignment? My guess is that Chevrolet ships 1LEs without track alignment because the tires will last longer for the average owner.

I have seen posts from other owners saying they go with track alignment on the street because they want the best handling car they can have. More power to them. All I know is that I don't personally drive on the street like I drive on the track.

As far as Watkins Glen, this will be my 4th trip there. Twice in the Mustang and once in the M235i. My lap times in the Mustang were in the 2:40 range. The BMW did 2:30 on a wet track. The Mustang almost reached 130 mph on the back straight, while the BMW got to 131. My expectations for the 1LE are to be a LOT better than both of those cars. I do try for personal bests each time out, but it is not my priority by any means. My goal is always to have fun with it and not worry about shaving every last tenth of a second off my lap times.

[pbsinternet1le]

You don't have to but you will have some understeer if you don't. Track alignment will wear just fine for street driving . No need to change back an forth.

[Alpha1BC]

I've had the track alignment on mine since day 1 with track days every now and then and my tire wear is nice and even at 12,000 miles. I've also never heard of anyone having extremely uneven wear using the track alignment on the street if the alignment was done correctly. If anything, it's people wanting MORE camber than the track alignment suggests if you're purely tracking the car to help combat wearing the outside shoulder on track and give even a little more lateral grip. The GM suggested spec isn't really all that aggressive compared to actual race cars, but is more a middle ground that works pretty well on a track and the street.

Also, FWIW, the alignment on these cars is all over the place coming from the factory. Specs are pretty open so they can rush it through and get it off the line so it's kinda a mixed bag on what you're gonna get. This can make the car asymmetric in terms of handling to a degree where it can possibly be a little unsettling on track, even for a beginner. I'd suggest getting the track alignment even if just from a driver confidence standpoint. Will make learning a lot easier because the car will be more responsive and predictable which makes it easier to trust that the car is going to do what you want it to do, even when you're not at the limit.

Is it absolutely required? No, but since you mentioned you bought it as a track car, why not spend the extra $100 or $200 to set it up properly? It's not really a continuous maintenance item. Might need to get it tweaked in a couple of years once you start finding the limits and stuff like bushings fully settle in, but other than that it's a set it and forget it kind of thing. Plus, I almost guarantee you'll ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner if you wait until after you run a few track days to have it done

Originally Posted by wjones14

why wouldn't Chevrolet just ship all 1LEs with track alignment?

Main reason is that the track alignment specs are significantly tighter than the street specs. The factory alignment rigs are setup so that minimal or no alignment adjustments are needed after assembly. To set alignment to tolerances as tight as the track alignment requires someone manually setting it up on an alignment rack, which unfortunately isn't feasible to have the plant do without slowing production or installing a ton of additional equipment and hiring skilled workers to manually align every single car that comes out of the plant. That's especially the case since this level of alignment doesn't matter to 90% of the customers that buy all the cars coming out of the Lansing plant. Easier to just have the alignment fixed by the customers that track their cars instead

[GermanMuscle]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

Can you provide examples of these posts? I've had my car on the track camber spec since pretty much new, and tire wear has been very even, and not what I would consider excessively rapid for this type of tire, even with thousands of miles of road trips (In my first year of ownership, I did a 2500 mile round trip from Toronto to Atlanta to do a track day at Road Atlanta, among others).

If people have had uneven/excessive wear, I would suspect that the alignment was done incorrectly. A friend of mine went through a set of front tires in a couple thousand miles because the first alignment shop he went to set the toe completely wrong.

Nigel

For example: Track Alignment + DD. Pics Inside

[GermanMuscle]

Originally Posted by Alpha1BC

I've had the track alignment on mine since day 1 with track days every now and then and my tire wear is nice and even at 12,000 miles. I've also never heard of anyone having extremely uneven wear using the track alignment on the street if the alignment was done correctly. If anything, it's people wanting MORE camber than the track alignment suggests if you're purely tracking the car to help combat wearing the outside shoulder on track and give even a little more lateral grip. The GM suggested spec isn't really all that aggressive compared to actual race cars, but is more a middle ground that works pretty well on a track and the street.

Also, FWIW, the alignment on these cars is all over the place coming from the factory. Specs are pretty open so they can rush it through and get it off the line so it's kinda a mixed bag on what you're gonna get. This can make the car asymmetric in terms of handling to a degree where it can possibly be a little unsettling on track, even for a beginner. I'd suggest getting the track alignment even if just from a driver confidence standpoint. Will make learning a lot easier because the car will be more responsive and predictable which makes it easier to trust that the car is going to do what you want it to do, even when you're not at the limit.

Is it absolutely required? No, but since you mentioned you bought it as a track car, why not spend the extra $100 or $200 to set it up properly? It's not really a continuous maintenance item. Might need to get it tweaked in a couple of years once you start finding the limits and stuff like bushings fully settle in, but other than that it's a set it and forget it kind of thing. Plus, I almost guarantee you'll ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner if you wait until after you run a few track days to have it done


Main reason is that the track alignment specs are significantly tighter than the street specs. The factory alignment rigs are setup so that minimal or no alignment adjustments are needed after assembly. To set alignment to tolerances as tight as the track alignment requires someone manually setting it up on an alignment rack, which unfortunately isn't feasible to have the plant do without slowing production or installing a ton of additional equipment and hiring skilled workers to manually align every single car that comes out of the plant. That's especially the case since this level of alignment doesn't matter to 90% of the customers that buy all the cars coming out of the Lansing plant. Easier to just have the alignment fixed by the customers that track their cars instead

This makes sense, I will go with the track alignment then. It seems like the other posts I have seen about excessive wear had the wrong toe as well, so that probably played a big role as well.



And I agree with everyone that driver mod is going to be the best money spent at the moment. Like Alpha said why not invest the $100-$200 for the alignment and learn the cars handling with the proper setup right from the start.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Thanks for the Watkins Glen advice!

I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. I just wanted to give a first-timer the opinion of someone who has done over a dozen track days.

Otherwise, why wouldn't Chevrolet just ship all 1LEs with track alignment? My guess is that Chevrolet ships 1LEs without track alignment because the tires will last longer for the average owner.

I agree that it's not needed for the OP. As you know my message to you was just to be careful with the understeer in the WGI Esses without it

I bet some Camaros do come with the track alignment by accident given how bad Chevy aligns these cars in the factory. The additional wear factor is "real" but on the OEM tires will never become an issue if toe is set properly. They'll wear out all by themselves. If you actually measure a new set of OEM SS 1LE tires you'll find that GY put deeper tread blocks on the inside of the tire because they expected it to have additional camber. Even with -2.7 degrees up front on my SS 1LE I still wore out the outsides first. I had track alignment since after the first track car. and the wear did balance out more.

My ZLE came with a track alignment but that's because the dealer set it that way before I bought it (except for moving the strut tops, they did not do that part). I rotated the tops and brought it in for the alignment and it was already sitting at -2.9 and -3...

[Stephen12ZL1]

leave it alone for now...I would run it "as is" with possibly high temp brake fluid.