[hotlap]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

The EU/AS model has large, SUV style side mirrors with integrated turn signals, see a couple photos in this thread: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554936

I'm not sure if these are pin compatible with our US model, unfortunately, but there is probably a way to install them if one wants more glass.

It looks like they fold in also.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

It might not be as bad as terrible, but it ain't good or even mediocre either. I have 6 solid years in a Challenger as a DD, and then went to a 6th gen. The Challenger is easier to drive and it is easier to see of the wider, taller and if we are talking about the side view, longer windows. The side mirrors were also bigger and seem to be higher mounted. I could also put the seat pretty high without my head hitting to roof liner and visibility got even better. I agree the Camaro is OK, the visibility is not so bad it is a constant worry... agree. But sorry I DD them both for long periods of time, the Challenger is much easier to see out of. Put it this way, I'd let my teenage son DD a Challenger to school, but not the 6th gen, he already makes mistakes on a 4 door civic. It would be my opinion the Camaro could use the bigger two-part Mustang side view mirrors. So this is a subjective observation, actual objective measurements would show IMO of course the Camaro has many and large blind spots, which are difficult to observe with smallish side mirrors. I'll only add in one caveat, I'm retired and now drive the wife's van too much... all windows.

You can definitely see MORE out of the front and the sides of the Challenger as compared to the Camaro. However when looking back at your blind spots the lack of visibility is pretty much the same in both cars.

Between the two I think the Camaro is easier to drive due to the fact that it is smaller and more nimble. My Hellcat, while very fast, always reminds you that it is a big and heavy car. It requires more physical effort to maneuver it around. And the steering response is much slower. So I personally would say the ZL1 is easier to drive. The Hellcat is just roomier and easier to get in and out of. I can't comment on the lower trims as I do not have those as a DD. But the Hellcat will wear you out quicker.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by hotlap

It looks like they fold in also.

Yep, they're manual folding mirrors.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by hotlap

It looks like they fold in also.

Yeh that looks great! Should call it the oldman option. My wife is from Japan, so I think it is cool when the mirrors fold in to park.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Between the two I think the Camaro is easier to drive due to the fact that it is smaller and more nimble. My Hellcat, while very fast, always reminds you that it is a big and heavy car. It requires more physical effort to maneuver it around. And the steering response is much slower. So I personally would say the ZL1 is easier to drive. The Hellcat is just roomier and easier to get in and out of. I can't comment on the lower trims as I do not have those as a DD. But the Hellcat will wear you out quicker.

I meant easier to drive from a normal human going to work perspective. I'm not doing any lane changes per se and the Challenger is far more tossable vs any Texas F250 truck. That said, yes the is a HUGE difference going from a Challenger, even one properly setup with a performance suspension, not slammer springs, to a 6th gen SS. The first day with a 6th gen lets you know that the Challenger is a 25 year old Benz design. There is no tossability at all with the Challenger and you need the mindset that you are in a 2.2 ton behemoth that is also RWD.

As an example with traction control on coming around a corner in first, If I push on the gas 1/2 way, the rear tires will break traction and the traction control will just straighten the car out like I was kind throttle control, actually, it is kind of fun. I bet it is even more fun with an eLSD. I've done it so many times that it is now old hat. With the Challenger I'd never trust the tracktion and stability control to keep me worry free. The car is just to heavy to toss

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

Yeh that looks great! Should call it the oldman option. My wife is from Japan, so I think it is cool when the mirrors fold in to park.

I got it. Nice subtle joke, LOL!!

Originally Posted by oldman

I meant easier to drive from a normal human going to work perspective. I'm not doing any lane changes per se and the Challenger is far more tossable vs any Texas F250 truck. That said, yes the is a HUGE difference going from a Challenger, even one properly setup with a performance suspension, not slammer springs, to a 6th gen SS. The first day with a 6th gen lets you know that the Challenger is a 25 year old Benz design. There is no tossability at all with the Challenger and you need the mindset that you are in a 2.2 ton behemoth that is also RWD.

As an example with traction control on coming around a corner in first, If I push on the gas 1/2 way, the rear tires will break traction and the traction control will just straighten the car out like I was kind throttle control, actually, it is kind of fun. I bet it is even more fun with an eLSD. I've done it so many times that it is now old hat. With the Challenger I'd never trust the tracktion and stability control to keep me worry free. The car is just to heavy to toss

Agreed. I said it before that if I had to pick between the two I would take an auto Hellcat over a ZL1.

[oldman]

I build a 440 Signent (4 door Plymouth dart) I believe they only came with a slant six. It had read bench seats, column shift curb feelers, hub caps. When I was done with it it had Dana 60 widen cop rims from Stockton wheel, SAME hub caps, curb feelers, bench seat, column shift 440 built... LOL, "Oldman option" Guys would peak under the car and think that must be the biggest 7 and 1/4 rear end ever. (both Dana and 7 and 1/4 were banjo type)... curb feelers LOL..

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You can definitely see MORE out of the front and the sides of the Challenger as compared to the Camaro. However when looking back at your blind spots the lack of visibility is pretty much the same in both cars.

Between the two I think the Camaro is easier to drive due to the fact that it is smaller and more nimble. My Hellcat, while very fast, always reminds you that it is a big and heavy car. It requires more physical effort to maneuver it around. And the steering response is much slower. So I personally would say the ZL1 is easier to drive. The Hellcat is just roomier and easier to get in and out of. I can't comment on the lower trims as I do not have those as a DD. But the Hellcat will wear you out quicker.

Yep, this is exactly what I was saying

[NW-99SS]

Some of you have never driven a long-nose Pete with the seat on the floor and a 52' enclosed trailer behind you...blind spots, bwahahaha!!!

I've driven a 6th gen ZLE - loved it. No worse than driving my 4th gen, except it has a backup camera and sensors - so easy to park.

Is the cabin on a Challenger easier to see out of - a little, but the car is bigger, wider, and heavier. I will gladly give up weight and size for handling...seems lost on people these days. Smaller and lighter is better - if I wanted a big, heavy, smooth car with tons of room, sure a Challenger is great. But if I want a sports car, the Camaro is the choice of the 3 hands down.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by oldman

It might not be as bad as terrible, but it ain't good or even mediocre either. I have 6 solid years in a Challenger as a DD, and then went to a 6th gen. The Challenger is easier to drive and it is easier to see of the wider, taller and if we are talking about the side view, longer windows. The side mirrors were also bigger and seem to be higher mounted. I could also put the seat pretty high without my head hitting to roof liner and visibility got even better. I agree the Camaro is OK, the visibility is not so bad it is a constant worry... agree. But sorry I DD them both for long periods of time, the Challenger is much easier to see out of. Put it this way, I'd let my teenage son DD a Challenger to school, but not the 6th gen, he already makes mistakes on a 4 door civic. It would be my opinion the Camaro could use the bigger two-part Mustang side view mirrors. So this is a subjective observation, actual objective measurements would show IMO of course the Camaro has many and large blind spots, which are difficult to observe with smallish side mirrors. I'll only add in one caveat, I'm retired and now drive the wife's van too much... all windows.

Sorry what? I was just saying the camaro isn't as bad as people have been conditioned to think by sensational mag excerpts. I compared it to the Mustang, which while better, isn't great either.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by oldman

Yeh that looks great! Should call it the oldman option. My wife is from Japan, so I think it is cool when the mirrors fold in to park.

Lmao

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Sorry what? I was just saying the camaro isn't as bad as people have been conditioned to think by sensational mag excerpts. I compared it to the Mustang, which while better, isn't great either.

I agree, my comment was on Challenger, which is MORE than just lower windows. The entire driving position is different. Nothing more.

Mustang at least the one I drove has a two piece bigger mirror which I like.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by oldman

I agree, my comment was on Challenger, which is MORE than just lower windows. The entire driving position is different. Nothing more.

Mustang at least the one I drove has a two piece bigger mirror which I like.

But the blind spots are still horrible on the Challenger. The C pillar is huge and the head rests completely block the small rear side windows.

[oldman]

Do you or did you DD a Challenger or do you just have to be "right". I DD almost 100,000 miles in two Challengers. The Challenger is easier to see out of than the Camaro PERIOD. So if the Challenger "still has horrible blind spots", then the Camaro is that much worst. For me, I thought the Challenger was easy to get used to. I think the 6th gen Camaro needs a bit more attention mainly due to the smallish side mirrors, which evidently are too small to pass safety in Europe.

But please, since you seem to know it all, how many miles have you spent in a Challenger?