[drivingisfun]

Originally Posted by JROC

The PP2 is Fords attempt to try and use a cheaper GT to compete with a SS 1LE. Pretty embarrassing for them to have their fancy/pricey Shelby's (including the R models) getting outhandled by a SS with a handling package. Lol. But seriously the reason I don't have a S550 car is because as a platform it's mediocre (maybe good) at best from a performance standpoint. Alpha is an excellent performance platform. Not as easy to live with as it's ergonomics aren't as inviting as Mustangs, but it's not bad.

Look I used to be a Mustang fanboy, and I like the GT PP2. It's a nice looking car. But it works hard to try and compete with the SS 1LE. For example it's rocking Michelin SC2's in 305's on all 4 corners to try and hang. It's tires have worse life expectancy and are much more expensive than the GY's on the 1LE. And getting 10K out of a 1LE's tires is pretty good. Plus the PP2 and GT350's are known for tramlining way worse than the SS 1LE or any GEN6 Camaro is know for.

The thing that annoys me about Ford is they always budget on the chassis and suspension setup of the Mustang much more than GM does with Camaro, and this is nothing new. (I will say I prefer S197 over Zeta though) Then they'll release a very worked over model that's basically a racecar for the streets and people act like that means the Mustangs are the better handling platform. For example a GEN3/GEN4 Fbody has a much superior chassis and suspension setup than Foxbody/SN95 has, but Ford went all out with the Cobra R's and only built 107 in 93, 250 in 95, and 300 in 2000 but they had the best performance during their respective era's. Still having a minimalistic interior, with deleted audio and A/C, hoses to pass air to coolers on the car coming thru the interior, etc didn't make for very inviting street cars. GM didn't offer Fbody's as hardcore of a turn-key racecar for the streets back then. But this is kind of like what Chevy did with the GEN5 Z/28. It would kill any factory S197 on a road course, but I still feel like S197 is a superior platform but many will argue against that.

I do think Coyote is very good, but so is LT1. I don't really think Coyote sounds better than the LT motors though. Some say Coyote sounds better at idle and LT1 sounds better at WOT. I will say this IMO LT sounds better than LS, (other than maybe LS7) but Coyote doesn't sound as good as older Modulars. For example as crappy flowing as 2V Modulars are, you put a good exhaust setup on one and they sound great. Also a Terminator is a much better sounding car than a Coyote. Don't get me wrong Coyotes generally sound pretty good, but they're not the end all to good sounding motors. But I guess motor sounds are subjective. IMO Voodoo is the most overrated motor in terms of sound quality that I've ever seen. They're like my old LS1 in that at WOT they sound pissed and badass like they're powerful and ready to run, but their tone isn't all that sexy IMO.

Go drive both and see which one you prefer and go with that. It's your money so spend it as you see fit. Really either car offers more handling performance than you're going to sanely use on the street, but it's still fun to have.

Originally Posted by LESS1

A little over a year ago I was where you are now in your consideration of a new car. In my case, I was looking for a more track focused car. After months of research, I narrowed my choices down to Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0, GT350R, C7 Corvette Grand Sport and Camaro SS 1LE. Obviously, since I am responding to you in this forum I choose a 2019 SS 1LE. This is a fantastic car and really does "punch above its weight" giving cars that cost thousands more all they can handle and then some.

As someone else already mentioned, the 1LE is a track car first, street car second. fantastic driving dynamics and feedback. Better than S550 platform hands down no matter which iteration. You can not do better in the new car market than SS 1LE dollar for dollar, there simply isn't any competition.

Herein lies the problem, all of these track enhancements come at a cost to the bottom line. If you only go to track days/HPDE occasionally each year and value comfort features like heated and cooled seats, navigation, blind-spot monitoring and technology over lap times and are considering a Camaro. I'd advise you to focus on 2SS with MRC, toss in NPP if you like a louder exhaust at times.

As described, this package will provide the comfort it sounds like you are after and would do very well at your HPDE events and should have little trouble keeping up with or staying in front of PP1/PP2 cars with a decent driver. Should you want to go faster an upgrade to your 2SS MRC/NPP with SS 1LE wheels and tires will do wonders and will knock over a second or more off your lap times.

One last point on the "visibility" issue. For myself, I do not find this to be much bother at all. Having spent years riding motorcycles in Central FLA. You become accustomed to scanning the road in all directions in an effort to not end up under the car of a hoped up senior citizen on meds. On the flip side if your paying more attention to everything else besides the road and are careless, especially with lane changes and while backing up. Yeah, you'll have issues, otherwise, once you have spent time behind the wheel you will adapt to the differences. This is a trade-off GM choose to provide a much stiffer platform to build their track/performance car from. You really need to drive these cars back to back to get a sense of which is going to serve your needs. Best of luck to you in your decision making process and let us know what you decide, either way.

Originally Posted by JD_

I have owned both a 2018 Mustang GT PP2 and my current car a 2018 SS 1LE. Actually, I technically owned both for a while in the Summer of 2018. Bought the GT PP2 on 9 June, 860 miles and 3 weeks later the motor grenaded. Bought the 1LE a few weeks later. The 1LE has been to the track for more than 10 events and 13k miles.

you be the judge.


PS and yes, that is pieces of piston/valves in the intake port in the last picture

Thanks for the replies! Well that settles it, you guys have fully convinced me that the S550 is not the way to go. I'll still test drive it since there are so many in my area and I love the noise, but the premium I'll have to pay for equivalent performance and seeing that blown up motor make it not worth the price anymore. I'm still at least a year out from buying a car, but hopefully I'll have some pictures to share next year.

[drivingisfun]

Originally Posted by IH8WNTR

Not sure if the OP is aware, the 1SS 1LE also comes with the magnetic dampening. I do 2 track days or so a year and a lot of the roads here in the bay area are awful. In tour mode its really not bad. I have enjoyed driving it every time it has been driven by me. Even traffic doesn't feel as crappy. The only thing I wish it had was the better audio.

The 1SS is definitely really nice considering the price point, but since I would be using the car as a daily and it's my first car with sight lines that unforgiving, I'd go for the 2SS for the added comfort and the parking/safety sensors. If I had another car to daily though, I'd be on the 1SS 1LE in a heartbeat. The bang for your buck with that is insane!

[JROC]

FYI you can get a 2SS 1LE. They are not as common as a 1SS 1LE but they do make them. In 2017 they only came in a 1SS but since 2018+ a 2SS 1LE became an option.

JD that's a bummer about your PP2. It was a very nice looking car.

One reason the GEN6 shines performance wise like it does (in fact the main reason) is its chassis. Alpha was developed using the old BMW E46 chassis as its benchmark. (or so the story as I understand it goes) I assume GM realised how good that platform was so they chose it to develop the Alpha off of. The S550's origins date back to the DEW98 platform which was used on cars like the 00-06 Lincoln LS, 00-08 Jaguar S-Type, 02-05 Thunderbird, etc. A more budgeted platform called the D2C which used front struts and a SRA was developed off this platform and used for the S197 Mustang, and the S550 platform evolved from it. So while unique in most ways it still shares its roots with the DEW98/D2C chassis'. In reality DEW98 was a decent platform for its day, but this isn't 1999 anymore and the Mustangs D2C chassis was more of a budgeted platform than the DEW98 which used a SLA front and rear suspension.

[pbsinternet1le]

I left to buy a Mustang and came home with a Camaro.

[Matos1LE]

Originally Posted by drivingisfun

Thanks for the reply! This really makes me more comfortable in strongly considering a Camaro 1LE. I might have to check out the 2SS with the magnetic ride dampers as well to see how capable it is. All in all, I wish the Camaro had the same exhaust note as the Mustang's Coyote, but knowing that I'll have the Tremec with the Camaro instead of the MT-82from the Mustang will be really nice. Based on what you said, it sounds like the tradeoffs with the Camaro will be more worth it than the tradeoffs with the Mustang. I think you may have just pushed the 1LE to the top of my list.

This is fairly subjective, but I detest how the current Mustangs sound. The 1990s to early 2000s Mustangs sounded so good to me and I was disappointed when the retro-stangs came out and sounded nothing like that. With regard to inventory, Miami has plenty of 1LE options. You can have your local dealer pull one in, or make the drive if you want (make for a nice weekend getaway). The dealership where I bought and service mine always has a bunch. It's AutoNation Chevy Doral.

[Jaxcam02]

Originally Posted by Msquared

1)
5) It's actually not as bad as I expected. The biggest thing is that people need to learn to use their side mirrors properly. They should be aimed so that you don't see any of the car itself in their fields of vision. That way, you can see any cars in the mirrors that are otherwise in the blind spots. When set up like this, a quick glance shows you what (if anything) is in the mirror and also any cars that are visible through the side window. Between that and your interior rear-view mirror, you have everything covered.

I agree with this. I was good and confident in the mirrors. BUT for instance, turning left and stopping in the middle median you better be either perpendicular or parallel to the traveling lanes because that quarter panel blocks your entire view if you are trying to look over your right shoulder at an angle. I ****ed up once doing that thinking I was in my truck and I couldn't see any of the oncoming traffic. I had to almost lean all the way over to the passenger window to see lol.

[TrackClub]

Just a few extra comments for the OP:

Anyone that says that a Camaro doesn't come alive until 75mph should come for a drive with me

Sighlines are not at all "unforgiving"! ALL you have to do is adjust side mirrors properly to eliminate "blind spots".
Albeit rear cross traffic sensors in 2SS equipped cars would surely be a bonus. How the heck we all drove cars years ago with zero safety tech and didnt wreck daily is beyond me...maybe we were better drivers back then?
Or maybe getting complacent, if not lazy...
My 86 yr old auntie drives a 15 yr old car with zero tech and hasnt wrecked yet!!!

I strongly suggest you visit GM website and go thru a process of "building" a car to see what each trim (like 1SS and 2SS) will give ya. Basically, the latter is the same car but better stereo, heated/ventilated seats and safety tech and some extra bling (i think?).

Note, that "1LE" denotes a track package option on an SS (either with 1SS basic trim, or 2SS which is a loaded trim per my comment above). Either way, an SS 1LE is primariy a track focused car. Basically, mechanically identical to C7 Corvette Grand Sport plus 2 rear seats for much less money. It has the same motor, the same MRC suspension, the same ELSD, the same Brembo brakes, the same Drive Modes selections (Touring/Sport/Track) and the same PTM electronics. But it has far better Ricaro front seats.

I have a 1SS trim level SS 1LE and i love it! I routinely drive several hundreds of miles to/from track venues many times per season and this car is as rewarding as a DD, as it is on a track.
So, i am not at all surprised, that quite a few folks here own 1LEs yet dont track them much, it at all, yet love their cars.

On the other hand, the 1LE track package option costs a bit of money. So, you may also consider getting just an SS without the 1LE package, but spending your money on a 2SS trim plus MRC instead. This should save you money, while still getting you a terrific performance car plus all the bling and safety tech. That is, if saving money is important and getting max performance at a track is not.

Hope it helps. Cheers!

[Aragorn]

Keep in mind that due to frontend splitter most of us park in reverse. Cross traffic alert sounds nice but may not be as necessary.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Jaxcam02

I agree with this. I was good and confident in the mirrors. BUT for instance, turning left and stopping in the middle median you better be either perpendicular or parallel to the traveling lanes because that quarter panel blocks your entire view if you are trying to look over your right shoulder at an angle. I ****ed up once doing that thinking I was in my truck and I couldn't see any of the oncoming traffic. I had to almost lean all the way over to the passenger window to see lol.

Haha, this is true, a 135-degree left turn can be a giant PITA, as opposed to a minor one in a sedan or SUV. Probably the only real visibility drawback that can't be fully overcome with mirrors and adaptation. Lots of neck goosing and body twisting, or a shotgun driver needed.

I've had the car for 2 years and can count the number of times this occurred on one hand, though.

[Hops]

I ruminated about two years about getting a Camaro, even though my inner gear head knew with the release of the 2017 ss 1le, this was the car for me. I had many of the issues the OP had about daily use and I got too caught up with immersing myself too much online researching the car. And looking back, a lot of it was a waste of time.

Yes, issues about ride, comfort, visibility, room, are all negative in reviews, but so much depends on your specific situation and how much you weigh positives to offset the negatives. I would have gotten in a Camaro sooner if i just got some seat time in the car. I don't find the ride that bad, i have enough room to take the kids to school because i'm not tall and can move the seat forward a decent amount, the room in the trunk is fine. The visibility isn't as bad as i thought, although it did take me a few days to really know i wouldn't have serious regrets about it.


In short, i'd first suggest a long test drive or better, a couple day rental.

[Tyestick]

Side mirror coverage:

Originally Posted by Msquared

They should be aimed so that you don't see any of the car itself in their fields of vision. That way, you can see any cars in the mirrors that are otherwise in the blind spots.

Adjusting the mirrors will be different for everyone. Having your seat properly adjusted also ties into how well you’re able to see outside of your vehicle in conjunction with your mirrors.

I have my side mirrors adjusted to where I can see a little bit of my car, due to the fact that when motorcycles are ‘filtering/lane splitting’, I have no issue seeing them.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Tyestick

Side mirror coverage:



Adjusting the mirrors will be different for everyone. Having your seat properly adjusted also ties into how well you’re able to see outside of your vehicle in conjunction with your mirrors.

I have my side mirrors adjusted to where I can see a little bit of my car, due to the fact that when motorcycles are ‘filtering/lane splitting’, I have no issue seeing them.

As long as you can see ANY part of your vehicle in the side mirrors you have blind spots. And those will affect your ability to see any vehicle regardless of type, or size. Proper use of peripheral vision also plays a role in safe driving techniques here (without a need for any rubber necking).

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I have a 2SS with magnetic ride control, and it's an amazingly wonderful car.

JamesNoBrakes gave an excellent summary that I won't rehash from the "non-1LE" perspective, suffice to say that the majority of the 1LE's extra capability comes from its wide wheels and tires, which is always an option for a non-1LE, aftermarket or OEM. And although you can't make a 1LE out of a "regular" 2SS, you can get 80-90% of the way there later in case you want to (the rest is the electronic diff that cannot be retrofitted, things like the spoiler, seats, steering wheel material or hood wrap won't make a difference IMO unless you go balls to the wall).

You couldn’t be more wrong in your statement about the wider tires. I had a 2016 2SS with 315 on rear and 285 up front. There is not comparison in handling and drivability in track conditions, I drove the 2SS for over 3 years and is a great car but now driving the 1LE it’s a dream. Have you driven a 1LE before? If not you should, there is a big difference and it’s not just the wide tires. It’s the total package, limited slip diff is the cat’s meow and getting the weight down helps a lot too. Both great models of a truly great car.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2

It’s the total package, limited slip diff is the cat’s meow and getting the weight down helps a lot too

A 1LE will actually be heavier than a similarly equipped SS, due to the eLSD and wider wheels / tires.