[raptor5244]

[QUOTE=CamaroRSOnt;10720267]Lets face owning a Tesla is a "lifestyle" decision, it's not about being a car guy... this guy puts it perfectly on Youtube - "you don't have to do something admirable to be admired, you just have to own a Tesla"

That was pretty funny. Not all Tesla owners are like that now that the Model 3 is out and pricing has come down to affordable levels.

Speaking of parodies, this one regarding Camaros was pretty funny.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Cars have been running off 12V DC forever so people with any inclination for messing with electric components will be right at home with it.

Since 1954.

People with just the basics of car knowledge can perform basic electronic repairs and upgrades on their cars without risk of damage because of this standardization being so old.

I'd place a good bet that right now every all-electric car runs on a different electrical system. That there is no global standardization in place.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Well you might need a soldering iron and some cheap components from China.

Electronic speed controllers, iNav GPS units, lithium polymer batteries, motor upgrades, none of that stuff requires a degree to install at home. Alot of what people call a "hack" these days isn't even that, they're just replacing a factory part with something else.

Mechanically it's closer to upgrading your car stereo or lighting than installing a procharger. Cars have been running off 12V DC forever so people with any inclination for messing with electric components will be right at home with it.

I hear you, but these EV systems are 400V and 800V, one misstep and you are dead. This is actually another reason why modifying mass manufactured EV's or building anything other than the most rudimentary DIY electric car will be rather challenging, along with the previous argument about encryption in control electronics and modules.

https://jalopnik.com/are-high-voltag...ous-1785747619

[GTO_Gregory]

I'd accept a 1,000 Horsepower Camaro if it got 40MPG Highway and 30MPG City. But, it would probably need to have ridiculously wide and sticky tires even if it was four-wheel powered.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I hear you, but these EV systems are 400V and 800V, one misstep and you are dead. This is actually another reason why modifying mass manufactured EV's or building anything other than the most rudimentary DIY electric car will be rather challenging, along with the previous argument about encryption in control electronics and modules.

https://jalopnik.com/are-high-voltag...ous-1785747619

It only takes somewhere between 100 and 200 milliamps to result in fatality, and there certainly are situations where you could conduct that much.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Well you might need a soldering iron and some cheap components from China.

Electronic speed controllers, iNav GPS units, lithium polymer batteries, motor upgrades, none of that stuff requires a degree to install at home. Alot of what people call a "hack" these days isn't even that, they're just replacing a factory part with something else.

Mechanically it's closer to upgrading your car stereo or lighting than installing a procharger. Cars have been running off 12V DC forever so people with any inclination for messing with electric components will be right at home with it.

Sure, the mechanical part wouldn't be much different. The bigger problem will be in getting whatever you swap in to play nice with everything else on the CAN-bus.


Norm

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It only takes somewhere between 100 and 200 milliamps to result in fatality, and there certainly are situations where you could conduct that much.


Norm

Indeed. And, unless I've forgotten too much since my elementary school days (always a possibility ), given that our bodies have a mostly fixed resistance, the higher voltage we allow, the higher the current that will flow through our body in case we contact a live wire. Even if one wears protection, they might have tiny punctures or tears, so I imagine either special work gloves or multiple layers ("swiss cheese model", heh) would be required...

[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, with a 300 mile range you don’t need to plug in every time you park an EV. For my daily commute I would need to charge once every 2 weeks with out plugging in.

And fast charging now enables 80% in 15 minutes so simply a lot closer than you think.

And unlike an ICE, people work everyday to improve this even further.

You've posted this before, 80% in 15 minutes sounds dubious. Not calling you a liar, but do you have a cite?

From Tesla's own website:

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

Says 80% takes *30 minutes. *BEST CASE*

Charging from 10% to 90% takes about 1 hour when NOT sharing A/B pair (charging in A stall when B is not in use). First half hour charging at about 100-110kW, then next half hour charging speed tapers all the way to 30kW.

From a co-worker;

*if the Supercharger site is busy and A/B stalls are shared, it takes 1.5 hours (first 20 mins slow b/c most juice goes into another car in pair, then second car start tapering and your charging speed goes up for a while, and eventually tapers too). One is encouraged to enjoy a meal during your charge. Another tip; if the Supercharger station is busy, look to pair with a Model 3, or pair with a car that's almost finished charging.

In cold weather below freezing it takes 20-30 mins to warm battery for higher speed charging, so warming period adds to charging time.

If the battery is warm, it has to cool for a while, and this also adds significantly to charge times.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

You've posted this before, 80% in 15 minutes sounds dubious. Not calling you a liar, but do you have a cite?

From Tesla's own website:

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

Says 80% takes *30 minutes. *BEST CASE*

Charging from 10% to 90% takes about 1 hour when NOT sharing A/B pair (charging in A stall when B is not in use). First half hour charging at about 100-110kW, then next half hour charging speed tapers all the way to 30kW.

From a co-worker;

*if the Supercharger site is busy and A/B stalls are shared, it takes 1.5 hours (first 20 mins slow b/c most juice goes into another car in pair, then second car start tapering and your charging speed goes up for a while, and eventually tapers too). One is encouraged to enjoy a meal during your charge. Another tip; if the Supercharger station is busy, look to pair with a Model 3, or pair with a car that's almost finished charging.

In cold weather below freezing it takes 20-30 mins to warm battery for higher speed charging, so warming period adds to charging time.

If the battery is warm, it has to cool for a while, and this also adds significantly to charge times.

https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/cha...ging-and-more/

Porsche says DC fast charging, 80% in 15 minutes.

[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by Number 3

https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/cha...ging-and-more/
Porsche says DC fast charging, 80% in 15 minutes.

So, it's what Porsche says then, and you have to go to a Charge-Point that will work with the Porsche.

Again; best case. Battery can't be hot, or cold. and it's not good for your battery pack to charge at this rate very often.

From the same website:

https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/bus...harging-myths/

temperature is very important to batteries. So if you’ve been driving at freeway speeds for a while, your battery will probably be too hot to charge at optimal speeds right away. Likewise, if your battery’s been sitting in the cold for a while, it’ll also charge a bit more slowly until it warms up. Remember your battery’s sensitivity to temperature and give it a chance to warm up or cool down.

So when do we race the Porsche against my Navigator from SF to LA? Do you think you will win?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Indeed. And, unless I've forgotten too much since my elementary school days (always a possibility ), given that our bodies have a mostly fixed resistance, the higher voltage we allow, the higher the current that will flow through our body in case we contact a live wire.

I bet your body resistance effectively drops substantially in the presence of many fluids. Touch the two terminals of a good 9-volt battery to your tongue sometime, realizing that the battery voltage in an EV is 50 or 100 times higher. I bet most of us sweat a bit when we're working on a car any time between mid-spring and late fall . . .


Body resistance also seems to vary somewhat among individuals.


Norm

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

So, it's what Porsche says then, and you have to go to a Charge-Point that will work with the Porsche.

Again; best case. Battery can't be hot, or cold. and it's not good for your battery pack to charge at this rate very often.

From the same website:

https://www.chargepoint.com/blog/bus...harging-myths/

temperature is very important to batteries. So if you’ve been driving at freeway speeds for a while, your battery will probably be too hot to charge at optimal speeds right away. Likewise, if your battery’s been sitting in the cold for a while, it’ll also charge a bit more slowly until it warms up. Remember your battery’s sensitivity to temperature and give it a chance to warm up or cool down.

So when do we race the Porsche against my Navigator from SF to LA? Do you think you will win?

Dude, I'm not buying or selling. You called me out for the source and I provided it, and then you question Porsche's validity. Up to you judge if Porsche is for some reason lying.

Battery temps on EVs are generally thermally managed. The Volt had a heating/cooling system 10 years ago so that's not such a big deal.

But for your mythical race......

What is unknown is the range of a Taycan at 160 mph. Your Navigator is likely governed at 125 mph (maybe lower) simply for tires and CG. And 23 gallons at full tilt you are probably stopping every 2 hours for fuel would be my guess. WOT in your Navigator can't be any better than 10 mpg and I'm betting it's worse. It would be interesting.

If the Taycan could get 150 miles range at full tilt and get an 80% charge (which leaves 120 mile range for the remaining fast charges) in 15 minutes vs. your (my best guess) 230 miles at 125 mph and 5 minute recharge you would be close. Farmer's math would suggest that with those assumptions your Navigator (nice vehicle btw) would be slightly behind.

But a lot of guesses there, though and a giant assumption of mythically (ideally placed) DC fast chargers.

[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Dude, I'm not buying or selling. You called me out for the source and I provided it, and then you question Porsche's validity. Up to you judge if Porsche is for some reason lying.

Battery temps on EVs are generally thermally managed. The Volt had a heating/cooling system 10 years ago so that's not such a big deal.

But for your mythical race......

What is unknown is the range of a Taycan at 160 mph. Your Navigator is likely governed at 125 mph (maybe lower) simply for tires and CG. And 23 gallons at full tilt you are probably stopping every 2 hours for fuel would be my guess. WOT in your Navigator can't be any better than 10 mpg and I'm betting it's worse. It would be interesting.

If the Taycan could get 150 miles range at full tilt and get an 80% charge (which leaves 120 mile range for the remaining fast charges) in 15 minutes vs. your (my best guess) 230 miles at 125 mph and 5 minute recharge you would be close. Farmer's math would suggest that with those assumptions your Navigator (nice vehicle btw) would be slightly behind.

But a lot of guesses there, though and a giant assumption of mythically (ideally placed) DC fast chargers.

Tell you what, I'll not go faster than 85 in the Navigator, and I'll still beat the Porsche to LA.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

Tell you what, I'll not go faster than 85 in the Navigator, and I'll still beat the Porsche to LA.

Other than the location of chargers, you might want to check the math, especially limiting yourself to 85. Like I said, I’d like to see it.