[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

But very soon that’s all it will be.

And that’s why people will continue to support he who shall remain nameless due to policies of this forum.

And will now vote for anyone with similar policies.

[Nightfall ss1le]

Not one bit. I bought my car for the driving experience. Can’t road trip an EV, can’t go out & play all day in one or track it all day & no musical V8 rumble.

[Zack46]

Originally Posted by Nightfall ss1le

Not one bit. I bought my car for the driving experience. Can’t road trip an EV, can’t go out & play all day in one or track it all day & no musical V8 rumble.

[90503]

The only thing inevitable with EVs is that we will constantly hear that they will be inevitable and that there is nothing we can do about it. We are told that we must accept them as the only viable future for cars. And many here have blindly agreed to be ok with them rather than choose to continue with ICE. I say it is a bogus future that depends on a drum beat of constant propaganda and illusions of their popularity and viability.

EVs are being unnecessarily foisted on the US car buying public as a necessity and road block to overcome in order to satisfy the dictates and future demands of the Communist Party in China.

We have never had a more plentiful supply of oil and gas than we now have in the US. ICE vehicles have never been more fuel efficient, powerful and pollution free than what we currently have. Yet, they must be eliminated for the logistically impossible task of making all future vehicles all electric and dependent on the whims of Red China.

I'll choose to buy ICE as long as possible and not purchase and subsidize EVs that promote less freedom of choice and government controlled transportation demands of an over-seas adversary.

EVs would be non-existent and die a well-deserved death were it not for government subsidies and social engineering propaganda of non US interests that also turn a blind eye to the atrocious environmental damage and scorched earth results required to produce these EV batteries.

[CamaroRSOnt]

Originally Posted by 90503

EVs would be non-existent and die a well-deserved death were it not for government subsidies and social engineering propaganda of non US interests that also turn a blind eye to the atrocious environmental damage and scorched earth results required to produce these EV batteries.

Amen brother

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Missed the point. It has nothing to do with bricks.

Let me clearly rephrase

If a 1000 hp Camaro existed and it handled like GM ride and handling engineers are world famous for would that change your minted? And so far the answer is suddenly I don’t care about having the best performing car I want the best rumbling car.

I get it. Saw an old friend today with his Hot Heels convertible. Auditory awesomeness. But very soon that’s all it will be.

What will we do for the sound and rumble? Play MP3 exhaust sounds through our stereo?

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

95% of the people don't want electric....the are trying to Force it Down our THROATS!

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

95% of the people don't want electric....the are trying to Force it Down our THROATS!

I'm not so sure on that stat. Tesla and EV's in general seem to be very popular where I live.

I am not in disagreement on the performance car EV concept though, I dont think that is something I will ever buy in to.

An EV for a DD, that I can plug in at work and charge for free, saving me tons in gas costs, does sound VERY appealing though.

[cellsafemode]

why? because you love the increased maintenance cost of ICE powered vehicles? You love the ever increasingly complex engines with ever increasingly specialized tools needed to troubleshoot them when they fail (and they will fail since they have thousands of parts )

You love the dependence on a single source of fuel (well, maybe 2 sources of fuel) that they depend on?


you love how they dont even provide their maximum efficiency for the entire rpm range you use them in and require complex (more points of failure) and expensive transmissions to provide efficient power-bands?

A lot of people would more than welcome the flexibility of fuel source and lower maintenance cost (including easier maintenance) of electric over gas powered vehicles. Not to mention the better performance doing the kind of driving that makes up 99% of the driving everyone does (commuting where there are stop lights and/or traffic)

The problem is, car companies are screwing cars for ICE and electric anyway. You get proprietary black boxes that control everything in your car whether you choose electric or gasoline that make sure you can't do your own maintenance work or be modified ... You get constant network connections so your car can be remote controlled, tracked, managed ...basically remotely. You get custom parts rather than industry standard parts so you depend on the factory suppliers and often they will only sell to dealers.

Cars are heading towards being a service industry rather than something you buy. Like planes. It doesn't matter what powers them, that's where it's going. too many on the road and the tests are not sufficient to keep poor drivers off it ...so as soon as robots can drive as good as humans ...insurance and safety would ethically have to make it very difficult to drive yourself around. Add to that, the income inequality gap (at least in the US) and you have a growing number of people choosing not to drive or own a car at all and just rely on service. It makes monetary sense across the board to not own a car in most places where any decent number of people live. government will also help with that push as they need to find solutions to people not having room to live ...reclaiming space from parking lots.

So fight your futile battle against electric cars...it will fail. But either way, as a car enthusiast ...we're all going to lose in my lifetime. because owning a car and driving it makes as much sense as everyone trying to own their own airplane these days.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It’s just interesting to me that as much as we talk about having the performing of the Pony cars when it comes to discussing even better performance it is suddenly about emotion, not performance.

Again don’t turn this into a political discussion, it’s simply intended to be a technology discussion.

As for the a Tesla at Gingerman? No clue what vintage or powertrain, but a Tesla is now running the ‘ring to out a Porsche, Porsche. So that argument is about to fall by the wayside as well. Plaid. 3 motor.

I think it's both, but in general performance discussions it is assumed we are talking about V8's if not directly comparing V8 models in the discussion so the emotion part rarely needs to be brought up as it's part and parcel in the cars being discussed already.

I don't pretend to be in the majority, and this is something that I have actually realized about myself in the last few years, but for me it's about styling inside and out and having a nice V8(meaning I want the 390 in my 68 Mustang, not the 289). The overall performance is not a buying decision, only that it is capable enough around town to be fun.

[CamaroRSOnt]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

why? because you love the increased maintenance cost of ICE powered vehicles?
.

Tesla's warranty costs ( and this from a car maker with very few miles on their cars compared to the big 3) have warranty costs twice as high per vehicle as the big 3. Tesla builds cars in big tents, their quality sucks. Resale on battery cars has sucked the big one for some time, your engine is worthless in 8 yrs, that's reliable.


Let me know when they quit selling 90m IC cars a year. That's a trend you can count on. Fully autonomous cars are a very long ways away, maybe some day your George Jetson dream will come true. This isn't the first time EV's have come around , that and solar were big themes a long time ago. Fact is the very first cars were electric, then the IC engine was developed and it never looked back. Tough to pay 2x the price with subsidies for a car that has less functionality and no one knows how to service them.


From a recent article on China who is the leading buyer of EV's -


"In China, about 70% of the 1.2 million electric or gasoline-electric hybrid models sold over the past year went to government and company fleets, according to Bernstein. Almost 500,000 bought by consumers were in cities that offer incentives such as being exempt from registration fees or license plate waiting lists.
“Few real consumers buy EVs except when forced by regulations,” Bernstein researchers Robin Zhu, Luke Hong and Xuan Ji said in a report."

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by CamaroRSOnt

Tesla's warranty costs ( and this from a car maker with very few miles on their cars compared to the big 3) have warranty costs twice as high per vehicle as the big 3. Tesla builds cars in big tents, their quality sucks. Resale on battery cars has sucked the big one for some time, your engine is worthless in 8 yrs, that's reliable.


Let me know when they quit selling 90m IC cars a year. That's a trend you can count on. Fully autonomous cars are a very long ways away, maybe some day your George Jetson dream will come true. This isn't the first time EV's have come around , that and solar were big themes a long time ago. Fact is the very first cars were electric, then the IC engine was developed and it never looked back. Tough to pay 2x the price with subsidies for a car that has less functionality and no one knows how to service them.

you dont need fully autonomous cars for the end of personal ownership. The trend towards people just using them as a service is already moving in that direction with no sign of stopping. Between rental cars and ride hailing (taxi's .uber etc) ... the shift towards not needing to own a car is growing and will continue to grow so long as all of the reasons why it's growing still exist (and they likely will unless a revolution occurs against the wealthy).

The high cost of electrics now wont stop the conversion to electrics. There are factors at play in the cost that have nothing to do with the underlying technology and more to do with marketing / economic choices like entrenched franchised business models and the need to control the entire car ownership market from beginning to end as much as possible...which plays into making everything proprietary and thus more expensive. But the same thing is happening to ICE cars too.

The end user wont see the benefits of electric in terms of cost...the companies that build them will. They have no incentive to pass on savings to the buyer since they're not operating in a capitalist economy. They're a few very huge companies that squash nearly any and all attempts at capitalism trying to poke it's head in.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I'm not so sure on that stat. Tesla and EV's in general seem to be very popular where I live.

I am not in disagreement on the performance car EV concept though, I dont think that is something I will ever buy in to.

An EV for a DD, that I can plug in at work and charge for free, saving me tons in gas costs, does sound VERY appealing though.

OK well maybe this generation is different. Bottom line is if it were not for regulations, gas prices etc. we would all be driving what we really want. Big fancy cars in your face aggressive styling with chrome and big engines. Just like before the mid 70s when there was a love affair with American autos. Now all designs are limited to the wind tunnel not ones imagination.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

And that’s why people will continue to support he who shall remain nameless due to policies of this forum.

And will now vote for anyone with similar policies.

Trump?