[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Rodan

They can do comparison articles until the cows come in, and it won't make a difference to M6G.

If the GT500 wins by .0005 seconds it will be "GT500 DESTROYS ZL1!!!11!!!1"

If the Camaro wins, it will be "Randy sandbagged!", "the tire pressure was wrong!", "somebody in the pits farted and created a headwind for the Mustang"...

The truth is we've seen enough to know the cars are roughly equivalent in performance, except the GT500 can pull away in a straight line if it can put the power down. That's what you get for an extra $25-50k.

I would like to see a ZL1 v. GT500 base comparison that includes street, strip and road course, since the big excuse regarding the 1LE is always the "harsh suspension".

If the GT500 had the same equipment, and the same bottom line cost as a ZL1, I'd certainly consider it (once the durability is proven), but for my money I'm quite happy with our ZL1.

Good post and well said.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I can only go buy what Ford said, that the base car would be the straightline car. It makes sense to me. Unprepped surfaces in magazine testing has shown the CFTP faster. On a real drag strip the base car has been faster, out off all the 10 second passes the Steeda car is the only CFTP car I know to crack 10s

The Throttle house guys even seemed to agree, seeing as how they felt the ZLE's huge aero would slow it down to much in the 1/4 which is why they brought a regular ZL1 to run that part of the test, which is funny because the CFTP also has big aero.

But whatever.

I think it's funny it's almost a reversal of the gen 5 cars where teh Ford won the performance metrics but the camaro won the comparison. Here the camaro is winning the metrics but the Ford is winning the comparison -(well 2 out of 3 so far lol)




Yep



Yep. Not been a good showing for the GT500-especially the CFTP. I want more reviews of the base car because my mind on the CFTP is pretty much made up. Fresh tires, full track alignment, wing in right spot or not I don't care. With that price the CFTP to me is simply over priced.

Ford Performance cars used to be warrantied for track use. I am not sure if they are or not.



So we know the track alignment for the ZLE would help.

Fresh tires obviously would help GT500.

Someone that has more experience than me, how much does the wing being in street setting matter?

Even if both cars were set to 100% track mode and the CFTP won, it wouldn't have had me jumping for joy. Not unless it put a gap on it like say what both did to the RE. Not with that price tag

Track alignment seemed to help the c8 by about 2 seconds if I remember correctly on a 2ish minute track.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Glad you agree, car that traps 5 mph more is out front then gets pulled 2 cars after well into the run.

Yeah and that car is a Ford so it has to win or it's a work.

Some people say maybe it lost traction or something but that couldn't have been the case. The gt500 always wins unless it's cheated against or sandbagged.

[NW-99SS]

Agreed, great discussion about 3 awesome cars everyone.

Shaffe, as stated earlier, the rear wing adjustment would allow the CFTP higher straight line speeds, but slightly lower cornering speeds...there isn't any data to determine how much time is lost/gained with the CFTP yet, especially as this looks to be the first time it has been timed at Willow.

I also agree with some of the "excuses". I predicted a long time ago that the CFTP would have a tough time equaling ZLE road course performance...that appears to be true. Price can not be ignored unless you are gifted one.

As someone who prefers to begin with a smaller car in a lighter chassis, the ZLE would be my choice. The money savings to me would buy a ton of tires and brakes for HPDE and lap events.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Rodan

They can do comparison articles until the cows come in, and it won't make a difference to M6G.

If the GT500 wins by .0005 seconds it will be "GT500 DESTROYS ZL1!!!11!!!1"

If the Camaro wins, it will be "Randy sandbagged!", "the tire pressure was wrong!", "somebody in the pits farted and created a headwind for the Mustang"...

The truth is we've seen enough to know the cars are roughly equivalent in performance, except the GT500 can pull away in a straight line if it can put the power down. That's what you get for an extra $25-50k.

I would like to see a ZL1 v. GT500 base comparison that includes street, strip and road course, since the big excuse regarding the 1LE is always the "harsh suspension".

If the GT500 had the same equipment, and the same bottom line cost as a ZL1, I'd certainly consider it (once the durability is proven), but for my money I'm quite happy with our ZL1.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Good post and well said.

This is very well said indeed.

I have to admit I am surprised the CFTP isn't faster than it is, and that is solely based on its astronomical asking price.

The base model really is where its at. Seems to be able to justify its price tag, where the CFTP just doesn't provide much reason to purchase it(based on testing so far).

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

This sounds like a ridiculous excuse for any manufactor except ford and their hype machine marketing and reliance on their fans tow the line... semi serious lol

The same way that BMW is still trading on the "Ultimate Driving Machine" marketing slogan, when anyone who has owned the new M3/4 knows it is anything BUT the Ultimate Driving Machine anymore.

[gmcvt]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

And that is probably the greater point here, because the differences between these cars is at the extreme margins. So much so that most people who by any of them will never operate at or even near those margins. Given that, the CFTP is the better all around car, the ZL1 is right on its heels, is a much better value with better content (powered, heated cooled seats, HUD, PDR).

As I replied to a similar question on M6G, if someone was giving my choice of these two cars for free....CFTP. If I’m spending my money....ZLE.

Well said sir. The GT500 CFTP is clearly the best of class overall but it will cost you a little more. I would bet that if we compared a ZL1 to a base GT500, the advantages might even be a bit more pronounced due to the closer MSRP. Our ZLE is certainly alot closer to a 1 trick pony whereas the GT500 CFTP can do multiple things well. Drag, road coarse and daily drive and do them all well and with a smaller engine to boot. And what the predator will pick up in the aftermarket will exceed the LT4 also. But again, it should because it cost considerably more.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Track alignment seemed to help the c8 by about 2 seconds if I remember correctly on a 2ish minute track.

Proper alignment can be a small thing and it can be a huge thing.

I know that between autocrossing the Camaro without and with a track alignment made a fairly significant improvement in how confident the car felt. I don't have good comparison times to back it up - just the car felt very different between the two settings going into, through and out of corners.

I could imagine that, between a Camaro without and with a track alignment, on the same track and all else being equal on the car setup, there is at least an extra 0.5-second on a 2-ish minute course.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

Well said sir. The GT500 CFTP is clearly the best of class overall but it will cost you a little more. I would bet that if we compared a ZL1 to a base GT500, the advantages might even be a bit more pronounced due to the closer MSRP. Our ZLE is certainly alot closer to a 1 trick pony whereas the GT500 CFTP can do multiple things well. Drag, road coarse and daily drive and do them all well and with a smaller engine to boot. And what the predator will pick up in the aftermarket will exceed the LT4 also. But again, it should because it cost considerably more.

The gt500 is very capable and has an undoubted more livable suspension than the zle, and it should be over all more capable, track and drag. It's got 110hp more. I would hope its faster everywhere but its simply not. The msrp of a base 500 is closer but that number goes up when you option it to have the same features as a standard zl1, if we're talking about creature comforts and things besides performance.

If looks and money aren't an issue then the gt500 is the more impressive street car, I acknowledge that, but vs the camaro it's not the better performance value, track car necessarily, and even in its wheel house of straight line performance it's not without contest. I have no issue with someone preferring the gt500 based looks, exclusivity, power, and it's roll racing dominance over the camaro on top of it being very competative in track capability and performance value. So to many it will be the best in class and that's fine.

I do agree about the predator having more potential than an lt4, that's undeniable. The lt4 blower alone simply doesn't cut it...

...but Lol at the gt500 having a smaller engine, smaller displacement but the engine itself is way bigger, not to mention much larger supercharger. There's a reason nobody bores out coyote based engines past 5.2L. Its not like Ford is handicapping themselves to prove a point, it's smaller displacement is just the nature of the beast with regards to layout, engine type, and packaging.

[gmcvt]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The gt500 is very capable and has an undoubted more livable suspension than the zle, and it should be over all more capable, track and drag. It's got 110hp more. I would hope its faster everywhere but its simply not. The msrp of a base 500 is closer but that number goes up when you option it to have the same features as a standard zl1, if we're talking about creature comforts and things besides performance.

If looks and money aren't an issue then the gt500 is the more impressive street car, I acknowledge that, but vs the camaro it's not the better performance value, track car necessarily, and even in its wheel house of straight line performance it's not without contest. I have no issue with someone preferring the gt500 based looks, exclusivity, power, and it's roll racing dominance over the camaro on top of it being very competative in track capability and performance value. So to many it will be the best in class and that's fine.


I do agree about the predator having more potential than an lt4, that's undeniable. The lt4 blower alone simply doesn't cut it...

...but Lol at the gt500 having a smaller engine, smaller displacement but the engine itself is way bigger, not to mention much larger supercharger. There's a reason nobody bores out coyote based engines past 5.2L. Its not like Ford is handicapping themselves to prove a point, it's smaller displacement is just the nature of the beast with regards to layout, engine type, and packaging.

Yah, I know the physical dimensions of the engine are larger and mass is heavier but I was referring to the displacement. I'm simply making the point that predator is, at lease in the context of boost, the better engine. Perhaps I shouldn't have focused on the CI's but it is an honorable mention. Your right, its the total package.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Agreed, great discussion about 3 awesome cars everyone.

Shaffe, as stated earlier, the rear wing adjustment would allow the CFTP higher straight line speeds, but slightly lower cornering speeds...there isn't any data to determine how much time is lost/gained with the CFTP yet, especially as this looks to be the first time it has been timed at Willow.

I also agree with some of the "excuses". I predicted a long time ago that the CFTP would have a tough time equaling ZLE road course performance...that appears to be true. Price can not be ignored unless you are gifted one.

As someone who prefers to begin with a smaller car in a lighter chassis, the ZLE would be my choice. The money savings to me would buy a ton of tires and brakes for HPDE and lap events.

Good to know, thanks!

[LSA]

It's silly to blame the loss on worn tires without any objective info on the tires. To go one step further and say the 500 would've won on new tires is silly squared.

If you're going to blame the outcome on the tires then tell us about the tires. What was the tread depth? How many miles were on them (and how many were street vs track). In the various shots where you can see the tires, the tread appears to be quite deep. Provide a decent quality image of the tires.

[gmcvt]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The gt500 is very capable and has an undoubted more livable suspension than the zle, and it should be over all more capable, track and drag. It's got 110hp more. I would hope its faster everywhere but its simply not. The msrp of a base 500 is closer but that number goes up when you option it to have the same features as a standard zl1, if we're talking about creature comforts and things besides performance.

If looks and money aren't an issue then the gt500 is the more impressive street car, I acknowledge that, but vs the camaro it's not the better performance value, track car necessarily, and even in its wheel house of straight line performance it's not without contest. I have no issue with someone preferring the gt500 based looks, exclusivity, power, and it's roll racing dominance over the camaro on top of it being very competative in track capability and performance value. So to many it will be the best in class and that's fine.

I do agree about the predator having more potential than an lt4, that's undeniable. The lt4 blower alone simply doesn't cut it...

...but Lol at the gt500 having a smaller engine, smaller displacement but the engine itself is way bigger, not to mention much larger supercharger. There's a reason nobody bores out coyote based engines past 5.2L. Its not like Ford is handicapping themselves to prove a point, it's smaller displacement is just the nature of the beast with regards to layout, engine type, and packaging.

And while I dont want to take anything away from the GT500 CFTP, I would have expected it to dominate the ZLE on the track, not barely squeaking one out. Again, future testing may prove otherwise as it may be a bit premature right now to tell.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

And while I dont want to take anything away from the GT500 CFTP, I would have expected it to dominate the ZLE on the track, not barely squeaking one out. Again, future testing may prove otherwise as it may be a bit premature right now to tell.

Just for the record, it hasnt squeeked out a win YET.