[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

And that is probably the greater point here, because the differences between these cars is at the extreme margins. So much so that most people who by any of them will never operate at or even near those margins. Given that, the CFTP is the better all around car, the ZL1 is right on its heels, is a much better value with better content (powered, heated cooled seats, HUD, PDR).

As I replied to a similar question on M6G, if someone was giving my choice of these two cars for free....CFTP. If I’m spending my money....ZLE.

Missed this before posting, should have just agreed as you nailed it LOL.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

You want to talk about GT500 advantages, they brought a different Camaro for the 1/4 test because they said the 1LE had no chance lol.

Well that is kinda why I said that if you took away just one of the many advantages the GT500 has it would lose. The ZL1 had one advantage. That was that they put the allegedly better version for straight line runs up against the CF GT500. That isn't even an advantage really because the CF GT500 is a mid 10 second car. And it has been back and forth on rather the CF is better than the Base 500 or not. Some say it is while others say otherwise. I do not know where we last left off. But I do know that it was mentioned that the CF is faster than the Base. Regardless. Weren't there 2 different GT500s in the comparison against the C8s? So I'm not sure we would have seen much of a difference in the results of this test if the Base 500 had been included. Except maybe it would have had better tires.

BTW, did I miss it or did they not post the actual quarter mile times? I think that info would give some insight into the tire thing. Maybe that is also why the 500 lost. At this point I think the results are a bit skewered.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Engyj

Hey guys, James here from Throttle House.


Just to clear some things up about the tires, the GT500 supplied was from Ford USA. And we were incredibly disappointed when we saw how not-fresh they were. From a PR perspective, Ford made a bit of a doozy here, because really the GT500 would have won with fresh tires, as Randy stated in the video. Thomas and I make these things happen as only the two of us. Between flying Randy and Jason out, organizing the track, the insurance, the cars, the accommodation and everything else, some things are going to slip through the cracks in terms of logistics.

We hope it never happens but we don't have a budget like bigger outlets do, or the flexibility to switch dates. It's just a shame that this was something Ford could control, and didn't. Perhaps they underestimated the exposure of the channel? I don't know. But like you (and a million mustang owners), I wish the tires were fresher, and I was upset on the day to find they weren't.

Its a shame that Ford dropped it on their end and we have another flawed S550 review. ZL1 for the win. Ford can look in the mirror... they own the loss

Thank you for joining the discussion. I do enjoy your videos.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Can't wait to get home and actually watch this video!


Haha yeah Ford: GT VIR lap reco..... GM hold my beer, what were you guys saying?
Not seeing the video yet, I say they should have run both the ZL1 and ZLE.
Is it 2 seconds or .95?


I tend to believe Randy, but idk here...


Right on

Good post - agreed on the Multimatic GT VIR stuff (cough Pro driver vs GM staffer as well).

I also question "fresher" tires making up the 0.95 second difference, unless my math is bad on 1:27.20 (ZLE) vs 1:28.15 (CFTP)? Maybe James can comment on how worn the tires of the GT500 were (tread depth vs new)?

[Rodan]

Was the ZL1 on new tires? It was my impression it was a privately owned car...?

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that is kinda why I said that if you took away just one of the many advantages the GT500 has it would lose. The ZL1 had one advantage. That was that they put the allegedly better version for straight line runs up against the CF GT500. That isn't even an advantage really because the CF GT500 is a mid 10 second car. And it has been back and forth on rather the CF is better than the Base 500 or not. Some say it is while others say otherwise. I do not know where we last left off. But I do know that it was mentioned that the CF is faster than the Base. Regardless. Weren't there 2 different GT500s in the comparison against the C8s? So I'm not sure we would have seen much of a difference in the results of this test if the Base 500 had been included. Except maybe it would have had better tires.

BTW, did I miss it or did they not post the actual quarter mile times? I think that info would give some insight into the tire thing. Maybe that is also why the 500 lost. At this point I think the results are a bit skewered.

Some metrics about any "advantage" - anyone feel free to correct this info:

CFTP is faster in the 1/4 than the base on unprepped surfaces (same day, location).

Is the ZL1A10 any faster than a ZLE A10 on an unprepped surface?

Not sure there was any real advantage here - I missed their reasoning for using a ZL1 in the drag race.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

This sounds like a ridiculous excuse for any manufactor except ford and their hype machine marketing and reliance on their fans tow the line... semi serious lol

Agreed, it really is ridiculous but it is Ford we are talking about and I think this is something they would do. Like Blaq said, if they lose the excuse is tires, and if they win they look even better.

They created a no lose scenario to save face. I think they are scared tbh. bock bock Ford LOL

[Rodan]

It's becoming clear that you can throw a blanket over the ZL1 and GT500 in any contest other than high speed roll racing or on a prepped dragstrip. It's gonna come down to the driver, or the tires, or some other miniscule variable that will put one car or the other ahead by a few tenths.

It's an amazing level of performance for a factory stock Mustang or Camaro. One thing is obvious though... you get a lot more for your money with the ZL1.

[Silveradoss573]

Originally Posted by Rodan

It's becoming clear that you can throw a blanket over the ZL1 and GT500 in any contest other than high speed roll racing or on a prepped dragstrip. It's gonna come down to the driver, or the tires, or some other miniscule variable that will put one car or the other ahead by a few tenths.

It's an amazing level of performance for a factory stock Mustang or Camaro. One thing is obvious though... you get a lot more for your money with the ZL1.

I do agree with this.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Agreed, it really is ridiculous but it is Ford we are talking about and I think this is something they would do. Like Blaq said, if they lose the excuse is tires, and if they win they look even better.

They created a no lose scenario to save face. I think they are scared tbh. bock bock Ford LOL

It been the case throughout the S550. Messed up reviews that put the Ford in a position that its ok to lose

Matching a PP1 against a SS 1LE

...or the GT350R vs ZL1

... no H2H with the GT and SS

The Camaro community wanted a SS 1LE vs GT350R or GT500 CFTP vs ZL1 1LE because Alpha is that good.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that is kinda why I said that if you took away just one of the many advantages the GT500 has it would lose. The ZL1 had one advantage. That was that they put the allegedly better version for straight line runs up against the CF GT500. That isn't even an advantage really because the CF GT500 is a mid 10 second car. And it has been back and forth on rather the CF is better than the Base 500 or not. Some say it is while others say otherwise. I do not know where we last left off. But I do know that it was mentioned that the CF is faster than the Base. Regardless. Weren't there 2 different GT500s in the comparison against the C8s? So I'm not sure we would have seen much of a difference in the results of this test if the Base 500 had been included. Except maybe it would have had better tires.

BTW, did I miss it or did they not post the actual quarter mile times? I think that info would give some insight into the tire thing. Maybe that is also why the 500 lost. At this point I think the results are a bit skewered.

1. In reviews so far on un prepped surfaces, the CFTP has been faster in the 1/4. Ford says the base car on a drag strip is the faster car. So far most of the videos of 500s in the 10s is the base car. The steeda video i posted is the first video of a CFTP that I have seen/know of in the tens.

2. The comparison against the C8 - was a mashup of two different reviews. They did their GT500 and CFTP review. Then they did their C8 review. Then they mashed the two reviews together. The cars were not there together. It was a mash up of two reviews. So i don't think you can really say they brought two cars to that comparison because it was just a mashup of two reviews.

3. I was just making that comment as a joke or to poke you in the ribs lol, you say the GT500 gets every advantage and here they bring a different ZL1 to do better in the 1/4 lol

4. No they didn't post 1/4 times, just raced them to see who got to the line first. Jason even said that the GT500 was going to lose because whoever was driving it didn't know about the delay in the launch control. The RE and ZL1 both leave before the 500 (bc of teh built in delay) and it couldn't catch them. We saw in the other video with Jason they knew about the delay and when the cars left at the same time the 500 was always ahead.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Good post - agreed on the Multimatic GT VIR stuff (cough Pro driver vs GM staffer as well).

I also question "fresher" tires making up the 0.95 second difference, unless my math is bad on 1:27.20 (ZLE) vs 1:28.15 (CFTP)? Maybe James can comment on how worn the tires of the GT500 were (tread depth vs new)?

Yeah GM drivers aren't professional race drivers but aren't all of GM staff drivers very accomplished drivers?

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Some metrics about any "advantage" - anyone feel free to correct this info:

CFTP is faster in the 1/4 than the base on unprepped surfaces (same day, location).

Is the ZL1A10 any faster than a ZLE A10 on an unprepped surface?

Not sure there was any real advantage here - I missed their reasoning for using a ZL1 in the drag race.

The CFTP has been faster in mag testing, in most videos on strips the base car seems to be faster.

They said they used a regular ZL1 because the ZLE wing and canards create to much drag and limit top speed so it wouldn't do well in the 1/4

[Checkmate1]

You all want to talk about the GT500 tires but I just found out the ZLE was simply on 'Street' alignment. It was a customer car.

The GT500 had the track alignment. The car came from Ford directly.

So let's not make this about 'tires', I spoke to all the track day guys. Just because the GT500 was slightly cooked cannot justify the lap time deficit.

The Alpha is the Alpha despite being short of 110hp, no DCT, CF wheels etc.

Checkmate - ZL1.

[Silveradoss573]

What's the info on the tires for the Camaro??? I mean really, I'm not to impressed with this shootout to be honest. Like someone else said, it looked more like just a few guys showing up for a "fun day" than anything else.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

And that is probably the greater point here, because the differences between these cars is at the extreme margins. So much so that most people who by any of them will never operate at or even near those margins. Given that, the CFTP is the better all around car, the ZL1 is right on its heels, is a much better value with better content (powered, heated cooled seats, HUD, PDR).

As I replied to a similar question on M6G, if someone was giving my choice of these two cars for free....CFTP. If I’m spending my money....ZLE.

Same here