[NW-99SS]

We can be hopeful an actual track test follows!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Part of the problem is the gearing. The Gen 2 MT-82s were geared so short you had to shift to 3rd to hit 60 and then shift to 5th right before the 1/4 mile mark and lose time or stay in 4th and lose time.

The 3rd Gen MT-82 went the opposite way where I think the gearing is too tall. Also the transmission is notoriously known for high rpm lockouts and the body mounted shifters move around. Honestly the entire MT-82 just needs to be scrapped.

Yea gen 2s gearing was too tight and gen 3s is a little long, though I don't like to prescribe to the idea that it's too long more so too long for the engine it's mated to, because speed wise the shift points till 3rd gear are similar to the ss's and I personally like them. If they shortened the 3 - 4 shift spread a tad it would be more ideal for the mustang.

I agree the mt82 is the problem, the lockouts are real and happen quite often in my experience. Between the super short gearing and lockouts I've beaten a lot of gen 2s that I shouldn't have. They either have to shift and slow down too often as they're starting to pull, and the long gearing on my stock ss just keeps me trucking ahead. I raced a boosted one on slicks the other day and between traction issues and trans lockouts causing slow shifts he never had a chance even though on paper i didn't have a chance.

I know the gt350 has the better tremec and like the gen 2 5.0s more aggressive gearing with the 1 to 1 gear being 5th instead of 4th. So more aggressive gearing wasn't exactly the answer there either considering the gt350 while fast isn't super impressive fast for the power level. Makes you wonder how fast an a10 gt350 that would stay in the high rpms would be.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I am sure M6G would say, if you want 305's buy the R.

Such great logic over there hahaha!

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yep. I even think the whole late night after hours engineering team story is to just feed into the magazine fodder. That's probably the biggest fumble of the S550. Should have just put the coolers on it and charged the extra for it.

But then it really would be too close to the GT350.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So they are comparing fastest lap for fastest lap or are they comparing each lap? Like, PP2's best lap is the first one and 350's best lap was the 3rd one and those got compared? Or they compared PP2 lap 1 to 350 lap 1 and so on? Because that info could be very misleading depending on the methods they used?

The main point is that the GT350 despite it's cost and the more powerful engine and trans is now relegated to battling the PP2 which was built using half measures. And even against the PP2 there is still some areas where it does not perform as good. The 350 could have been optioned up to $60K and then put up against the C8. Or the 350R. But we won't get to see that. But we did get to see a C8 optioned up by well over $10K and put up against a GT500. Would the 350 (non-R) have done as well if it was put up against the ZL1?

All of these 200TW tires will put up there best times the first 1 or 2 laps then fall off so I think it's apples to apples.
Ford will now only allow the GT350 to compete against its own little brother is probably the truth.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

True, except the 1les have run 12.3s in magazines (c&d, r&t) just like the regular ss and I believe the stock class winner of the camaro fest drag races was a 1le. As well as the pp2 running as fast if not faster than any other m6 GT, albeit at a slower trap speed.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Makes you wonder how fast an a10 gt350 that would stay in the high rpms would be.

Agreed with both of these and also makes you wonder why GM hasn't released an A10 SS 1LE? I thought they would for sure after they broke all the purists hearts with the ZLE. I think an A10 SS1LE would take the 1/4 mile crown back from the A10 GT* as another side benefit just from the (once again) tires.
Hell since i went off topic to the base 1/4 mile crown, make the 1LE wheels and tires a factory option for all Camaros. Then we could have an A10 LT1* that would certainly win.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I personally did not mind that the 350 won because it was just their opinion. All I wanted to know was what the performance numbers were and the pricing between the two. Anyone with an opinion can write an article and proclaim this or that as the winner and it wouldn't mean much.


So they are comparing fastest lap for fastest lap or are they comparing each lap? Like, PP2's best lap is the first one and 350's best lap was the 3rd one and those got compared? Or they compared PP2 lap 1 to 350 lap 1 and so on? Because that info could be very misleading depending on the methods they used?


I don't think Ford realized the fight they were getting into against the ZL1 and ZLE...and based on price, against the Z06. I'll leave the ZR1 out just to be fair. I think we would have seen a match up by now if the 500 had a shot of winning.


The main point is that the GT350 despite it's cost and the more powerful engine and trans is now relegated to battling the PP2 which was built using half measures. And even against the PP2 there is still some areas where it does not perform as good. The 350 could have been optioned up to $60K and then put up against the C8. Or the 350R. But we won't get to see that. But we did get to see a C8 optioned up by well over $10K and put up against a GT500. Would the 350 (non-R) have done as well if it was put up against the ZL1?

I like the majority of your post, the only thing I'll disagree with is the gt350 vs c8. The gt350 is already a little old and doesn't really have earth shattering performance to warrant that imo. Maybe a track test with the R for shits and giggles, but really gt350 vs c7 z51 has been done already and the gt350 didn't really have much for the c7 let alone the c8.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

We can be hopeful an actual track test follows!

M6G will bash all over the ZLE for jumping the start, and 'getting a better time', but will fail to read this part:

"To clear things up: We ran each car separately at our test track (off camera) with the same driver and better weather conditions and got the results you see at the end of the video. "

11.3 @ 130.7 GT500
11.6 @ 122.4 ZLE
11.7 @ 127 RE

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Such great logic over there hahaha!


But then it really would be too close to the GT350.


All of these 200TW tires will put up there best times the first 1 or 2 laps then fall off so I think it's apples to apples.
Ford will now only allow the GT350 to compete against its own little brother is probably the truth.



Agreed with both of these and also makes you wonder why GM hasn't released an A10 SS 1LE? I thought they would for sure after they broke all the purists hearts with the ZLE. I think an A10 SS1LE would take the 1/4 mile crown back from the A10 GT* as another side benefit just from the (once again) tires.
Hell since i went off topic to the base 1/4 mile crown, make the 1LE wheels and tires a factory option for all Camaros. Then we could have an A10 LT1* that would certainly win.

That's a good question, I'm an m6 guy so it's no sweat off my back but they did already break tradition with the ale, so there's a precedent. I'm sure an a10 ss 1le would be a little quicker than the m6 but I do like how the spread between auto and manual in the camaros isn't as wide as in the mustangs, whether that's intentional or not.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yep. I even think the whole late night after hours engineering team story is to just feed into the magazine fodder. That's probably the biggest fumble of the S550. Should have just put the coolers on it and charged the extra for it.

I think this is by design. As was said earlier it would be too close to the GT350 for sure then. And Ford would rather you put your own aftermarket coolers on so you void your transmission/diff warranty knowing it still won't hold up great to track abuse.

Originally Posted by Laststandard

If you want to trade for a day just let me know

If it worked out that we are at a track day together this summer, I'm not totally against the idea. It might be a bad idea for both of us though.

Is that pic from DCTC? I'm probably wrong, but one section I'm thinking of looks very familiar.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

M6G will bash all over the ZLE for jumping the start, and 'getting a better time', but will fail to read this part:

"To clear things up: We ran each car separately at our test track (off camera) with the same driver and better weather conditions and got the results you see at the end of the video. "

11.3 @ 130.7 GT500
11.6 @ 122.4 ZLE
11.7 @ 127 RE

100% Agreed - goes back to my post about avoiding their forum like the plague.

Also, all 3 are slower un-prepped than the C8.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You guys have to remember that the MT-82, while most performance enthusiasts complain about it, it is perfect for the vast majority of buyers who are all not racing this car..

And that right there is why it's still there. Ford knows the majority of these cars don't get raced so if it's good enough thats what they are going to use.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

We can be hopeful an actual track test follows!

Finally! and they even got it right! And what I mean by that is it was a RE, CFTP, and ZLE all autos and that was all they cared about for the test.

Hopefully they do a track test now.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Such great logic over there hahaha!


But then it really would be too close to the GT350.
.

It probably would be, but I think with this test from C&D we see that the 350 still put a 2 second gap on it, and was much better controlled through out so I think it would be safe.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

All of these 200TW tires will put up there best times the first 1 or 2 laps then fall off so I think it's apples to apples.
Ford will now only allow the GT350 to compete against its own little brother is probably the truth.

I take the magazine at its word and they just use the fastest lap whatever it was.

To your second point, that's not true. This C&D third review of the updated 350 in like the last 4 months. It's gone up against now the PP2, Supra, M2, and 718 Cayman

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Agreed with both of these and also makes you wonder why GM hasn't released an A10 SS 1LE? I thought they would for sure after they broke all the purists hearts with the ZLE. I think an A10 SS1LE would take the 1/4 mile crown back from the A10 GT* as another side benefit just from the (once again) tires.
Hell since i went off topic to the base 1/4 mile crown, make the 1LE wheels and tires a factory option for all Camaros. Then we could have an A10 LT1* that would certainly win.

I think with the ZLE A10, they did it because they had to with the GT500 being DCT. It will be interesting to see if they go that route with the SSLE as well.

While it would be cool to get the SSLE wheels and tires on the A10LT1 I think that would probably send it's cost to deep into SS range and kind of defeat the purpose of it.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

100% Agreed - goes back to my post about avoiding their forum like the plague.

Also, all 3 are slower un-prepped than the C8.

That place is a disaster

[BlaqWhole]

So we finally know what it takes to beat a ZL1...a $94K 760 HP Mustang. LOL!! For the ZL1 to be the cheapest and most underpowered yet not come in last says a lot. And I think we all know what will happen around a track. All in all the ZL1 is still the best value by far.

Additionally, I think a standard ZL1 would have been within 2 tenths of the 500 or right even. If it was the Base 500 then it would have been even closer. Also I did not expect the Redeye to do well at all with those Pirelli tires. So the results are pretty much as expected.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by minn19

If it worked out that we are at a track day together this summer, I'm not totally against the idea. It might be a bad idea for both of us though.

Is that pic from DCTC? I'm probably wrong, but one section I'm thinking of looks very familiar.

Yup, DCTC. Hoping to get some time at Brainerd and Road America this summer. I try to make most of the SCCA track nights at DCTC, even though it's a short track at least it's track time.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

100% Agreed - goes back to my post about avoiding their forum like the plague.

Also, all 3 are slower un-prepped than the C8.

My prediction held true.

I wasn't really paying attention to the 6th gen pony cars as they were being released, but were people acting all surprised that the 650HP ZL1 was faster in the 1/4 than the 526HP GT350?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Yup, DCTC. Hoping to get some time at Brainerd and Road America this summer. I try to make most of the SCCA track nights at DCTC, even though it's a short track at least it's track time.

Thought so, I try to get to a couple of them as well every summer. So I probably will see you there this year. Agreed, I'm tired of DCTC, but it is better than nothing.

I really want to hit both of those as well. Brainerd I almost for surely will and I'd love to go to RA as well. Since RA means a long weekend most likely, I'm not sure I'll have time for it.

If this place actually opens it could be a great local option. For some reason I'm skeptical of it actually happening though.

https://wcautobahn.com/

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Yup, DCTC. Hoping to get some time at Brainerd and Road America this summer. I try to make most of the SCCA track nights at DCTC, even though it's a short track at least it's track time.



My prediction held true.

I wasn't really paying attention to the 6th gen pony cars as they were being released, but were people acting all surprised that the 650HP ZL1 was faster in the 1/4 than the 526HP GT350?

Hoping to hit my local (~3hrs away) road course with my GS this year also.

I don't think any non-fanboy was surprised by the ZL1 and GT350 results. Most car guys, myself included, quickly realized how good the 6th gen was and believe the SS 1LE is a far closer competitor to the GT350 except in price...as has been in the case with all S550 variants except base models it seems.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

We can be hopeful an actual track test follows!

Idk if the autos launch control is as bad as the manuals, but seems like the a10 zl1 1le is all of 1 tenth faster than the manual, at least in this test. They should have just ran the manual lol.