[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I’m sure this has been discussed. But what is the camaro forum’s rebutall to the gt500 lapping the same time as the 991.2 gt3rs?

and the 991.2 gt3rs being significantly quicker the the zl1 1le?

Did they put it on a track that favors the GT500? There will be tracks where the GT500 can beat the ZL1 and/or ZLE. Typically they will be tracks that have longer straights. However if the track is more technical then the story will turn out differently. Regardless tho, you still have to factor in that the CF GT500 is a good $20K more expensive than a well optioned ZLE. And not for nothin but the ZLE already comes with just about everything. So any additional costs will all be stuff like navigation, CF hood insert, battery charger, etc. So if the CF GT500 manages to beat a car costing over $20K less then good for them I guess.

[NW-99SS]

Common GM, give the mags an A10 ZLE and let's do this already...

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I’m sure this has been discussed. But what is the camaro forum’s rebutall to the gt500 lapping the same time as the 991.2 gt3rs?

and the 991.2 gt3rs being significantly quicker the the zl1 1le?

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I can't speak for the forum, but personally I've held the opinion that the GT500 will do better than ZLE on tracks with long straights and fast curves. The ZLE's best chance will be on shorter, more handling focused tracks. Those might be a driver's race. More of an opinion than a rebuttal.

Here is what we know:

An amateur in a M6 ZLE ran 2.3 seconds slower than Randy Probst in the CFTP GT500 at VIR, and faster than Randy Probst in the base GT500.

As Martin said, VIR favors the GT500 since it has 2 of the longest straights of any North American road course.

You can extrapolate what you wish from that - I've posted the amateur video in this thread back in December. I think we all realize a pro in an A10 ZLE will be faster than an amateur...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In all fairness to Ford, I think this is a Road & Track thing, not a Ford thing. Sorta like the recent "Best Performance Car" contest that the Hyundai Veloster N won. Over the C8. And the new 911. Turns out it was a magazine re-writing the rules to be "Performance Car That Surprised Us The Most". Which magazine was that? (Hint: The words "Trend" and "Driver" are not in the title).

Maybe they're on a crusade to champion vehicles that anybody can afford.

Or perhaps Ford does have something to do with it. Or perhaps the magazines have to tread lightly so as not to offend the people who waited 6 years for an answer to the GM Titans even tho they can't afford it. Already now the Ford guys are making all sorts of nefarious accusations against RP and everyone else except for Speed Phenom. I'm thinking this is a mess that not many want to step in. To me, Ford dropped the ball big time and anyone who can't beat the very well built ZL1s or C7 Zs or the C8s are all in GM's pocket.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

That’s best car they could get to compare to the gt500? It has less then half the HP. Does Ford dictate what cars it can go against?

I'm sure this has to have something to do with it at this point lol.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

I’m sure this has been discussed. But what is the camaro forum’s rebutall to the gt500 lapping the same time as the 991.2 gt3rs?

and the 991.2 gt3rs being significantly quicker the the zl1 1le?

It didn't lap the same time though, and cool where did you find the camaros lap times for chuckawalla raceway?

The gt500 cftp should be a little faster than the zl1, but all we have to go off if is racing math since the comparo hasn't happened yet. Soon we'll get to know how they stack up against a Subaru wrx though.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

This latest gt500 comparo is pretty dumb imo, only way this makes any sense is if the writers are trying to make some sort of psuedo feel good point comparing cars in different segments, except no one cares. The gt500 vs c8, was already a little strange but I get it, they're both the new hot sports cars (supra can't hang). However it was almost akin to comparing the c8 z51 to the zr1 instead of the c7 z51 it was compared against in C&D. Seems c&d is doing the tests people care about and make sense these days. 1le vs pp2, pp2 vs gt350, and they mentioned how the gt500 preformed in 0 to 60 and 1/4 vs the redeye and zl1. Hopefully they give us the 3 way pony battle people want.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Or perhaps Ford does have something to do with it. Or perhaps the magazines have to tread lightly so as not to offend the people who waited 6 years for an answer to the GM Titans even tho they can't afford it. Already now the Ford guys are making all sorts of nefarious accusations against RP and everyone else except for Speed Phenom. I'm thinking this is a mess that not many want to step in. To me, Ford dropped the ball big time and anyone who can't beat the very well built ZL1s or C7 Zs or the C8s are all in GM's pocket.

I love your conspiracy theories

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Or perhaps Ford does have something to do with it. Or perhaps the magazines have to tread lightly so as not to offend the people who waited 6 years for an answer to the GM Titans even tho they can't afford it. Already now the Ford guys are making all sorts of nefarious accusations against RP and everyone else except for Speed Phenom. I'm thinking this is a mess that not many want to step in. To me, Ford dropped the ball big time and anyone who can't beat the very well built ZL1s or C7 Zs or the C8s are all in GM's pocket.

There has been some Twilight Zone $#!t going on over there. But it all seems to be coming from the same 3 - 5 people. The whole "Randy is a GM shill" thing is hilarious / sad / mind-boggling all at the same time. Exhibit 1 is that he bought a 2.0T 1LE. That's proof positive that he's in GM's pocket. And apparently not just GM, because now it's been "proven" that he tanked the GT500 on the last turn in the comparison with the GT3, meaning the GT500 would have won, but Randy gagged it.


And Speed Phenom? They hated that guy more than they hate you when he "skipped the line" and got his GT500 ahead of the true GT500 fans. Folks completely ignored the fact that he simply called a dealer and said "I'll buy whatever you got" because the car he ordered is many months out. They were still waiting for their specific orders and concluded that Ford did him a solid. OK. It's like if you were to get pissed at me for finding a black C8 Stingray on a dealer lot before the one you ordered comes in. OK. But anyway, they (the small group of 3 - 5) have conveniently put away the daggers to uplift his 10.6s Texas drag strip time as the "official" 1/4 mile time, because obviously those yahoos at MT that got 11.3 and 11.5 at VIR don't know what they're doing.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There has been some Twilight Zone $#!t going on over there. But it all seems to be coming from the same 3 - 5 people. The whole "Randy is a GM shill" thing is hilarious / sad / mind-boggling all at the same time. Exhibit 1 is that he bought a 2.0T 1LE. That's proof positive that he's in GM's pocket. And apparently not just GM, because now it's been "proven" that he tanked the GT500 on the last turn in the comparison with the GT3, meaning the GT500 would have won, but Randy gagged it.


And Speed Phenom? They hated that guy more than they hate you when he "skipped the line" and got his GT500 ahead of the true GT500 fans. Folks completely ignored the fact that he simply called a dealer and said "I'll buy whatever you got" because the car he ordered is many months out. They were still waiting for their specific orders and concluded that Ford did him a solid. OK. It's like if you were to get pissed at me for finding a black C8 Stingray on a dealer lot before the one you ordered comes in. OK. But anyway, they (the small group of 3 - 5) have conveniently put away the daggers to uplift his 10.6s Texas drag strip time as the "official" 1/4 mile time, because obviously those yahoos at MT that got 11.3 and 11.5 at VIR don't know what they're doing.

It's hilarious...even more funny when you point out the prep, coaching, tire pressure changes, max RPM launch mode, etc. it took for SP to get the 10.6 - which I am GLAD he got to confirm Evan's time. Both at private track rentals with more prep than anyone will ever see at any event, but I digress - I must be a hater to realize these facts.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

It's hilarious...even more funny when you point out the prep, coaching, tire pressure changes, max RPM launch mode, etc. it took for SP to get the 10.6 - which I am GLAD he got to confirm Evan's time. Both at private track rentals with more prep than anyone will ever see at any event, but I digress - I must be a hater to realize these facts.

No. You're just a butthurt GM fanboy who worships at the alter of Pobst.

[shaffe]

This is all in good fun and back forth banter - not meant to come of as hostile or anything lol

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Is it just two metrics tho? Or has this not been a common theme with the entire S550? The GT is about half the price of the GT350 yet the GT beats the Shelby handily in the quarter mile. Now they're comparing the PP2 to the Shelby and the Shelby manages to lose in another performance metric.

We are talking about this test. The PP2 VS the 350. The 350 performed better in all areas except braking and skid pad. You made it seem like only Ford could allow that to happen. I gave you evidence that the SS1LE beats the ZL1 in those same metrics.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You keep saying I'm bashing the GT350 yet even you yourself said it should have disappeared 3-4 years ago. Anyone buying that car is doing so for the emblems and (in some cases) because they think chicks dig it. But when you have a chick in your $60K Mustang and you get walked by a $30K base model GT then what does that look like? Or when your $60K GT350 is capable of beating only a lower trim cheaper version of a Mustang that was built without coolers then what does that look like?

Yes I said the 350 should have gone away years ago. It was not built to go fast in a straight line, who cares if a GT PP1* is faster in a straightline. But as evidenced by this test, it goes around a track better than the GT. Even with all the PP2 goodies, a tire advantage and trickle down tech the 350 is still a better track car than the GT. C&D even said when pushed, its more planted, its more controlled, the steering is better. You just wanted to come at it bc a test showed a GT having 2 better metrics that in the end didn't matter, because the 350 was still faster on the road course and in the 1/4 mile. as you and hotlap and others love to mention there is 1 specific combo of options on a GT that is faster than a 350 in the 1/4 mile - an option combo that is designed to excel in that arena vs a car that designed to excel in a different arena. So to me it looks like a car the still in the mustang line up in the pecking order it's in excels in the area it is supposed to.

The fact that Ford is still making it, people are still buying it should be a good thing with whatever brand you support. With how much the segment is shrinking, its good that they still make cars like this

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Funny timing...right in the middle of my debate with shaffe on the GT500 always having some advantage in comparisons. LOL!!

I have no words for that upcoming test other than what the actual **** but speaking of that

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT500 so far has had some advantage or several advantages in every comparo that it has been involved in. Whether these cars are being picked intentionally or it just so happens that they're getting compared is up for debate. But in each of those situations, even with the advantages, it has still managed to lose at something for some damn reason. Which is insane when you think about it. That with a 6 year period of time being developed it can still manage to get bested by cars that are at a serious disadvantage.

That upcoming R&T article aside bc yes GT500 will have every advantage there but where are all these other comparisons it had the advantage and lost? You said you would go through them so where are they?

This upcoming R&T article is as far as I know only the 3rd comparison for the GT500

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In all fairness to Ford, I think this is a Road & Track thing, not a Ford thing. Sorta like the recent "Best Performance Car" contest that the Hyundai Veloster N won. Over the C8. And the new 911. Turns out it was a magazine re-writing the rules to be "Performance Car That Surprised Us The Most". Which magazine was that? (Hint: The words "Trend" and "Driver" are not in the title).

Maybe they're on a crusade to champion vehicles that anybody can afford.

It is odd very odd.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

This latest gt500 comparo is pretty dumb imo, only way this makes any sense is if the writers are trying to make some sort of psuedo feel good point comparing cars in different segments, except no one cares. The gt500 vs c8, was already a little strange but I get it, they're both the new hot sports cars (supra can't hang). However it was almost akin to comparing the c8 z51 to the zr1 instead of the c7 z51 it was compared against in C&D. Seems c&d is doing the tests people care about and make sense these days. 1le vs pp2, pp2 vs gt350, and they mentioned how the gt500 preformed in 0 to 60 and 1/4 vs the redeye and zl1. Hopefully they give us the 3 way pony battle people want.

Hopefully

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I can't speak for the forum, but personally I've held the opinion that the GT500 will do better than ZLE on tracks with long straights and fast curves. The ZLE's best chance will be on shorter, more handling focused tracks. Those might be a driver's race. More of an opinion than a rebuttal.

I only talk lap times for fun otherwise I find them meaningless in the real world. Especially in mortals hands like mine and most everyone else. I doubt I'll ever come across a GT500 at a track and if I do I doubt it'll be a CFTP. This has more to do with the area I'm in than anything else. I plan on hitting Road America this year so I'm sure I'll see some nice hardware there.

All that being said, is that time at that track really that impressive for either vehicle if a GT350R was really only 2.5 seconds slower? I get different days etc, but that should be an attainable time by a ZLE I would think. Otherwise I agree pro to pro the ZLE will most likely slower, but not by as much as the Ford fanboys are thinking is my guess.

Amatuer to amateur, it will be a drivers race IMO like most are in real world conditions.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

No. You're just a butthurt GM fanboy who worships at the alter of Pobst.

That was one of the crazier things in that thread, especially their reasoning as to why?

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by minn19

I only talk lap times for fun otherwise I find them meaningless in the real world. Especially in mortals hands like mine and most everyone else. I doubt I'll ever come across a GT500 at a track and if I do I doubt it'll be a CFTP. This has more to do with the area I'm in than anything else. I plan on hitting Road America this year so I'm sure I'll see some nice hardware there.

All that being said, is that time at that track really that impressive for either vehicle if a GT350R was really only 2.5 seconds slower? I get different days etc, but that should be an attainable time by a ZLE I would think. Otherwise I agree pro to pro the ZLE will most likely slower, but not by as much as the Ford fanboys are thinking is my guess.

Amatuer to amateur, it will be a drivers race IMO like most are in real world conditions.



That was one of the crazier things in that thread, especially their reasoning as to why?

That was my thought. The 350R was less then 2.5 sec slower being down 230hp and being a 6 speed. The zl1 is already faster then the R, and we know the 1le is much faster then the zl1. So it would only make sense that the 1le would be at least equal to the track gt500 is not faster. Also, a armature has already been faster then the base, and very close to the track car. So imagine a pro behind the wheel.